Jeremys slow drive to WHF

[ILB]

Probably has been discussed on many occasions. But what do you think was bambers real reason for driving slow was? So much so the police car overtook him.

From a guilty bamber scenario. It can be argued he was delaying arriving there trying to get some story straight. Which inevitably he would have to give in due course. Maybe even during this drive the enormity of what he had done hit him full force in the stomach.

From an innocent stance. It can obviously be argued he was reluctant to get to WHF in a haste because he was frightened. If shelia has pulled a gun out and is going berserk with it. Maybe he was fearful for his own personal safety. After all even nevill could not calm shelia down. And it was said they had a close relationship. Whereas Jeremys and shelias relationship was said to be strained and not so close.

I think in my opinion its one of the most interesting aspects of the case. And would love to know other people's opinions on it. It really does visit the pscyhe of bamber and what his mindset could have been

[guest29835]

If he's guilty, then I think the explanation is simple: he is going slowly to ensure that the police see him arrive, as he thinks this supports his quasi-alibi.

But how do we know he was driving slowly?  Did he admit it?  If so, did he explain it?  Did the police ever confirm their own speed?  It seems to be based on what the police say, but wouldn't a police response car in that situation be going quicker than normal traffic, so may well overtake Jeremy in that situation anyway? 

I think I recall reading a witness statement from a response officer saying that he was surprised at how slow the car was going and then recognised the same car when Jeremy pulled up.  But are we sure it wasn't just the officer being impatient to get to the incident?  People who need to get somewhere in a hurry often make for impatient drivers and can interpret the actions of other drivers as overly-hesitant.  And can the officer be sure it was the same car as Jeremy's?

Let's say the officer's impressions were accurate.  Couldn't it just be that Jeremy was woken up and was driving in the early hours of the morning?  If he is telling the truth and he was woken at something like 3 a.m., then had to drive along dark country roads, wouldn't he be tired and drive more slowly and cautiously than usual?

There is also the explanation you mention: that he was afraid to go to the farm ahead of the police.  On the face of it, this is not very convincing because it's doubtful that Jeremy would be afraid of Sheila, even with a gun, but we must remember that an innocent Jeremy was not to know at this point that it would only be Sheila.  The circumstances were extraordinary and he may have been afraid.

[lookout]

Driving like a bat out of Hell would also have shown guilt.

[Adam]

If he's guilty, then I think the explanation is simple: he is going slowly to ensure that the police see him arrive, as he thinks this supports his quasi-alibi.

But how do we know he was driving slowly?  Did he admit it?  If so, did he explain it?  Did the police ever confirm their own speed?  It seems to be based on what the police say, but wouldn't a police response car in that situation be going quicker than normal traffic, so may well overtake Jeremy in that situation anyway? 

I think I recall reading a witness statement from a response officer saying that he was surprised at how slow the car was going and then recognised the same car when Jeremy pulled up.  But are we sure it wasn't just the officer being impatient to get to the incident?  People who need to get somewhere in a hurry often make for impatient drivers and can interpret the actions of other drivers as overly-hesitant.  And can the officer be sure it was the same car as Jeremy's?

Let's say the officer's impressions were accurate.  Couldn't it just be that Jeremy was woken up and was driving in the early hours of the morning?  If he is telling the truth and he was woken at something like 3 a.m., then had to drive along dark country roads, wouldn't he be tired and drive more slowly and cautiously than usual?

There is also the explanation you mention: that he was afraid to go to the farm ahead of the police.  On the face of it, this is not very convincing because it's doubtful that Jeremy would be afraid of Sheila, even with a gun, but we must remember that an innocent Jeremy was not to know at this point that it would only be Sheila.  The circumstances were extraordinary and he may have been afraid.

wouldn't he be tired and drive more slowly and cautiously than usual?

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Lol.

[Adam]

Bamber asked the police to pick him up.

He drove slowly to arrive after the police. To give the impression 'I've just got here' after receiving my fathers call.

Bews said 'if he was driving any slower he would be static'.

[ILB]

If he's guilty, then I think the explanation is simple: he is going slowly to ensure that the police see him arrive, as he thinks this supports his quasi-alibi.

But how do we know he was driving slowly?  Did he admit it?  If so, did he explain it?  Did the police ever confirm their own speed?  It seems to be based on what the police say, but wouldn't a police response car in that situation be going quicker than normal traffic, so may well overtake Jeremy in that situation anyway? 

I think I recall reading a witness statement from a response officer saying that he was surprised at how slow the car was going and then recognised the same car when Jeremy pulled up.  But are we sure it wasn't just the officer being impatient to get to the incident?  People who need to get somewhere in a hurry often make for impatient drivers and can interpret the actions of other drivers as overly-hesitant.  And can the officer be sure it was the same car as Jeremy's?

Let's say the officer's impressions were accurate.  Couldn't it just be that Jeremy was woken up and was driving in the early hours of the morning?  If he is telling the truth and he was woken at something like 3 a.m., then had to drive along dark country roads, wouldn't he be tired and drive more slowly and cautiously than usual?

There is also the explanation you mention: that he was afraid to go to the farm ahead of the police.  On the face of it, this is not very convincing because it's doubtful that Jeremy would be afraid of Sheila, even with a gun, but we must remember that an innocent Jeremy was not to know at this point that it would only be Sheila.  The circumstances were extraordinary and he may have been afraid.

I don't think he'd have to drive slowly to achieve an alibi of where he was. Phone records show he placed the call from head street gold hanger. Even if gulity.

I don't think the coppers were impatient either. I reckon it was an astute observation that they noted his car to be driving slow when they overtook it

I think from a gulity scenario bamber would have had a full on reality check of what he had committed. His adrenalin a would have been pumping  even though the police at first came to the conclusion that his sister had indeed " gone mad" he would have had no idea of that scenario being accepted.  If gulity the amount of pressure he would have been under would have been kmmesne. He had to get some story straight even if they took his initial story as gospel. Remember if gulity only a couple of hours maybe an hour before he had taken five life's.

I think from the prosecution point of view his slow driving was to " buy himself some time" knowing he'd face onslaught questioning from the police. His head would have been all over the place

From an innocent prospective. Its not unreasonable Jeremy would be scared. He does not know what he is going to drive up to. Maybe he would have felt reassured on seeing a police car on the journey

[Adam]

I don't think he'd have to drive slowly to achieve an alibi of where he was. Phone records show he placed the call from head street gold hanger. Even if gulity.

I don't think the coppers were impatient either. I reckon it was an astute observation that they noted his car to be driving slow when they overtook it

I think from a gulity scenario bamber would have had a full on reality check of what he had committed. His adrenalin a would have been pumping  even though the police at first came to the conclusion that his sister had indeed " gone mad" he would have had no idea of that scenario being accepted.  If gulity the amount of pressure he would have been under would have been kmmesne. He had to get some story straight even if they took his initial story as gospel. Remember if gulity only a couple of hours maybe an hour before he had taken five life's.

I think from the prosecution point of view his slow driving was to " buy himself some time" knowing he'd face onslaught questioning from the police. His head would have been all over the place

From an innocent prospective. Its not unreasonable Jeremy would be scared. He does not know what he is going to drive up to. Maybe he would have felt reassured on seeing a police car on the journey

He wouldn't face a questioning onslaught after arriving. He would be leading the police into his direction.

Bamber quickly informed Bews that there were guns inside WHF & Sheila knew how to use them.

Bews said 'that bumped things up a bit'!

[guest29835]

wouldn't he be tired and drive more slowly and cautiously than usual?

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Lol.

Thanks Adam. It's good that I'm still receiving your moral support. It was red faces all round when I was stuck on Tollesbury Road in my Bermuda shorts. 
 
Appreciate it's a tough call for you as you have to keep up the guilt front while secretly working for Jeremy's release.

[ILB]

He wouldn't face a questioning onslaught after arriving. He would be leading the police into his direction.

Bamber quickly informed Bews that there were guns inside WHF & Sheila knew how to use them.

Bews said 'that bumped things up a bit'!

he would be giving a starting point
 That is all.

[guest29835]

I don't think he'd have to drive slowly to achieve an alibi of where he was. Phone records show he placed the call from head street gold hanger. Even if gulity.

I don't think the coppers were impatient either. I reckon it was an astute observation that they noted his car to be driving slow when they overtook it

I think from a gulity scenario bamber would have had a full on reality check of what he had committed. His adrenalin a would have been pumping  even though the police at first came to the conclusion that his sister had indeed " gone mad" he would have had no idea of that scenario being accepted.  If gulity the amount of pressure he would have been under would have been kmmesne. He had to get some story straight even if they took his initial story as gospel. Remember if gulity only a couple of hours maybe an hour before he had taken five life's.

I think from the prosecution point of view his slow driving was to " buy himself some time" knowing he'd face onslaught questioning from the police. His head would have been all over the place

From an innocent prospective. Its not unreasonable Jeremy would be scared. He does not know what he is going to drive up to. Maybe he would have felt reassured on seeing a police car on the journey

Phone records weren't itemised and interestingly I note he made a point of asking the police to collect him on their way.

It was never strictly an alibi.

[ILB]

I think the slow drive is very significant. It either boils down in my opinion, to two scenarios. A being he was scared of what he might be confronted with. Or B, he was buying himself some time. Maybe the enormity has hit as I stated and he was trying to regain some composure

[Adam]

I think the slow drive is very significant. It either boils down in my opinion, to two scenarios. A being he was scared of what he might be confronted with. Or B, he was buying himself some time. Maybe the enormity has hit as I stated and he was trying to regain some composure

Don't believe he was buying himself time. He had spent months planning the massacre. He would only ring the police when he was ready.

He wanted to arrive after the police to give the 'I've just arrived from my cottage after ringing you' impression.

[ILB]

Don't believe he was buying himself time. He had spent months planning the massacre. He would only ring the police when he was ready.

He wanted to arrive after the police to give the 'I've just arrived from my cottage after ringing you' impression.

I reckon he was panicking like hell if gulity. Even if he had been planning the massacre for a long time.

In a short period he had killed five members of his family. Can you imagine what emotions would have been running through his head.? The amount of adrenalin. Maybe he even had regrets. Maybe the confidence he had came later after taff Jones accepted his story as face value. And he thought he was in the clear.

At the time though. How would he know he would be certainly believed. In that drive to the farm. He had no idea if what the police would say to him or think. Remember bamber had no criminal record and his only record of contact with police was a none criminal matter regarding a RTA some months before.

Think of the statement that many people who believe bamber is gulity say " there is no way the small shelia could commit such an act" I strongly believe bamber would have thought this would never be believed either.  I think from the moment of making the phone call and driving to WHF he knew he was taking a massive gamble. He didn't know he would be believed despite arragonce, etc ( I am talking from a gulity bamber scenario here or course)

[guest29835]

Don't believe he was buying himself time. He had spent months planning the massacre. He would only ring the police when he was ready.

He wanted to arrive after the police to give the 'I've just arrived from my cottage after ringing you' impression.

That's roughly what I think as well - assuming he is guilty.

[ILB]

I don't believe that. Bamber placed the call from head street in the early hours. Why would have to establish he had just come from his house.