The Official Jeremy Bamber and White House Farm Podcast Series - Season 1

[guest29835]

3. Nevill is trying to reason with Sheila, and rings Jeremy as a way of stalling her or persuading her to stop.  "If you don't stop, I'll ring Jeremy....Right, I'm calling Jeremy now...", etc.  That type of thing

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See my last post.

Ringing Bamber 

You are an arrogant, ignorant idiot.  You know nothing about the case.  I will not engage with you.

[guest29835]

MODERATOR:

Please ensure this person is warned not to spam threads with repetitive posts that cover only one point at a time.

He must be told that he has to think about his posts and put his points in one or two posts, so that threads are not unduly long. 

He does not follow a normal posting pattern.  He is deliberately spamming.

[Adam]

5. Nevill terminates the call and goes after her.

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Poor Jeremy. Was in the middle of sleeping 'like a log'.

[guest29835]

5. Nevill terminates the call and goes after her.

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Poor Jeremy. Was in the middle of sleeping 'like a log'.

Stop spamming this thread.  Thoughtful criticism is fine, but don't post one point at a time. 

You are doing this on purpose.

[Adam]

6. Sheila fires on Nevill from the stairs, injuring him badly.  This is consistent with the blood evidence and the distribution of the spent cartridges on the landing.  She is advancing on him.  He turns and conspicuously makes for the kitchen, in an attempt to draw her away from the rest of the family upstairs.

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Nevill's two face shots were from inches away. Not consistant with him being on the stairs & Sheila in the bedroom.

[Adam]

7. Nevill and Sheila are now struggling in the kitchen, or Sheila just hits Nevill with the butt of the rifle, or whatever.

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Even more likely an injured Nevill would use his 8 stone and 9 inch advantage to take Sheila to the ground.

[Adam]

8. Nevill is unconscious.  I suspect he didn't die for some time and may have been alive and in and out of consciousness when Sheila killed herself later.  This is due to the accumulation of blood.

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Nevill would certainly be unconcious after the kitchen fight. His next 4 shots would have killed him. When ever they were.

Bamber agrees Nevill's back was burnt to check for signs of life.

[ngb1066]

Adam - I do think you are posting in a way intended to annoy or provoke other members.  By all means contribute to the debate, but please avoid repetitive posts which simply clog up the thread and add nothing to the debate.  Thank you.

[Adam]

9. Sheila returns upstairs without reloading and shoots June.  She may have heard June shouting on the landing, etc.  Lookout's theory that June was first shot on the stairs may well be correct, as there needs to be a reason for a confrontation between Sheila and June, otherwise why wouldn't Sheila just go straight to the twins, then kill herself.

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Are you saying June had not been shot yet. But had remained in bed despite all the noise. Then let herself get shot 5 times in bed. 

[Adam]

10. Sheila shoots June, initially only injuring her.  Sheila realises she out of ammunition.  She returns downstairs.  June is now crawling round the master bedroom towards the link door to the twins' room.

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If Nevill had been shot 8 times, June would have only been shot 3 times in bed.

Bit risky leaving Nevill downstairs with only 4 shots.

[Adam]

11. Sheila reloads the rifle and returns upstairs.  This time she shoots the twins, then shoots June, or maybe the order was June first, then the twins.  There may be at least one further fusillade if she has to re-load, depending on whether she could re-load the magazine fully.

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The twins had slept through it all?

[Adam]

12. Sheila then washes or cleans herself, and wipes the rifle action, then deliberately shoots herself.  She has a flash of clarity, and is ashamed of what she has done, therefore she doesn't commit this act in the twins' room but assumes she faces a long prison sentence and public opprobrium, etc., and thinks suicide is now her only way out.  She cries.  She knows her body will be found - obviously - and looking clean is important to her.

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You believe she washed herself afterwards. Lucky she had time prior to the police arriving.

Her nightdress was not damaged. So only correct she was also clean.

[lookout]

You're insane !!

[Adam]

Adam - I do think you are posting in a way intended to annoy or provoke other members.  By all means contribute to the debate, but please avoid repetitive posts which simply clog up the thread and add nothing to the debate.  Thank you.

QC kindly posted a 12 point Sheila scenario. At last.

I responded to each point. As I did with Rob's scenario.

Not sure why QC should have such a tantrum & be so aggressive. Surely he knew I would respond. 

QC's scenario is a new scenario. So impossible for my posts today to be repetitive. Certainly not Spam as I am responding to somebodies post.

It will be disappointing if posters are not allowed to respond to Sheila scenarios. I posted my Bamber scenario years ago & have always welcomed responses.

[killingeve]

Well you did propose that Nevill was trying to stop Sheila killing herself after killing her children.  But if you want to change it, then Nevill trying to stop her committing suicide also raises a problem.  It's not plausible due to the specification of the weapon.  Just think about how she would have to go about killing herself using that rifle. It would be a very deliberative process, giving Nevill ample chance to intervene and stop her.

In my view, and after due consideration of the available facts and evidence, the only plausible and internally consistent Sheila scenario - in outline - is the following:

1. Sheila is schizophrenic.  Schizophrenics wander around at night.  Sheila can't sleep and wanders round the house.  She is upset and fearful (or angstful) as she considers the kitchen conversation earlier.

2. Nevill finds Sheila in the kitchen.  Sheila has the weapon.  It is loaded.

3. Nevill is trying to reason with Sheila, and rings Jeremy as a way of stalling her or persuading her to stop.  "If you don't stop, I'll ring Jeremy....Right, I'm calling Jeremy now...", etc.  That type of thing.

4. As Jeremy answers the phone, Sheila runs out of the kitchen and makes for the stairs.

5. Nevill terminates the call and goes after her.

6. Sheila fires on Nevill from the stairs, injuring him badly.  This is consistent with the blood evidence and the distribution of the spent cartridges on the landing.  She is advancing on him.  He turns and conspicuously makes for the kitchen, in an attempt to draw her away from the rest of the family upstairs.

7. Nevill and Sheila are now struggling in the kitchen, or Sheila just hits Nevill with the butt of the rifle, or whatever.  (Note: it is possible that the phone call to Jeremy happened at this point, just before Sheila reaches the kitchen, rather than earlier, but that would require that a police officer wipes the kitchen phone).

8. Nevill is unconscious.  I suspect he didn't die for some time and may have been alive and in and out of consciousness when Sheila killed herself later.  This is due to the accumulation of blood.

9. Sheila returns upstairs without reloading and shoots June.  She may have heard June shouting on the landing, etc.  Lookout's theory that June was first shot on the stairs may well be correct, as there needs to be a reason for a confrontation between Sheila and June, otherwise why wouldn't Sheila just go straight to the twins, then kill herself?

10. Sheila shoots June, initially only injuring her.  Sheila realises she out of ammunition.  She returns downstairs.  June is now crawling round the master bedroom towards the link door to the twins' room.

11. Sheila reloads the rifle and returns upstairs.  This time she shoots the twins, then shoots June, or maybe the order was June first, then the twins.  There may be at least one further fusillade if she has to re-load, depending on whether she could re-load the magazine fully.

12. Sheila then washes or cleans herself, and wipes the rifle action, then deliberately shoots herself.  She has a flash of clarity, and is ashamed of what she has done, therefore she doesn't commit this act in the twins' room but assumes she faces a long prison sentence and public opprobrium, etc., and thinks suicide is now her only way out.  She cries.  She knows her body will be found - obviously - and looking clean is important to her.

13. I have no idea if the movement at the window was Sheila.  The starting point with that would be astronomical charts to ascertain if moon light is a plausible explanation.  It doesn't necessarily matter to this scenario if Sheila was alive at a later point or not, was seen in the kitchen by the Raid Group, or even cut into an emergency phone line.  The ending is the same in either event. 

I posted more detailed Sheila scenarios in the past, but that will do as an outline.  Obviously there will be questions and issues with it.  I don't say this is perfect.  I also don't presume to say I know what happened, but I do say that this is roughly (allowing for variations) the only plausible way it could have happened if Jeremy is innocent.

Point 7 - Impossible for the claimed phone call to take place after the upstairs gunshot injuries as these rendered Mr Bamber snr incapable of purposeful talk thereafter.