Author Topic: The Official Jeremy Bamber and White House Farm Podcast Series - Season 1  (Read 128644 times)

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Offline killingeve

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Re: The Official Jeremy Bamber and White House Farm Podcast Series - Season 1
« Reply #1185 on: November 11, 2021, 10:11:PM »
He owned 8% of the shares of the caravan park before the killings. But was he by law entitled to directors' fees and bonuses?

If they were part and parcel of share dividend or such like he may have had entitlement. He would be entitled to retain any property or rights he owned pre murders/verdict.  He forefeited his parents estate as he was unable to benefit from his crimes.  All water under the bridge now.  What would he do with large sums of money?  Pig out on sweets from the prison shop  :))  I suppose he could fund forensic tests rather than getting out the begging bowl. 

Offline killingeve

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Re: The Official Jeremy Bamber and White House Farm Podcast Series - Season 1
« Reply #1186 on: November 11, 2021, 10:22:PM »
I agree lookout and Roch made a similar point a few days ago. If I were on your side I'd say it's time to clean the Augean stable.

If the current submission fails its difficult to see where Bamber and the support group can go.  I guess they will still try to big up non-disclosure attempting to sell the idea to anyone who cares to listen that something exists amongst the material that's Bamber's get out of jail card. 

Perish the thought of more podcasts  :'(

Meanwhile, this January Bamber will be the same age as Mr Bamber snr when his life was cut short by his son. 

guest29835

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Re: The Official Jeremy Bamber and White House Farm Podcast Series - Season 1
« Reply #1187 on: November 12, 2021, 11:01:AM »
Didn't he drag her to a hearing at HMP Full Sutton several years back I believe..

That was an Agricultural Land Tribunal, as it was then called.  The parties were Jeremy, the Henry Smith Charity and the Eatons (Ann and Peter).

He owned 8% of the shares of the caravan park before the killings. But was he by law entitled to directors' fees and bonuses?

That would depend on what documentation was in place between the Company and its directors and what those documents said.  The Company would also have had a detailed constitution in the form of Articles of Association and the Companies Act (as it was then) applied.  In the absence of anything specific, you would expect that Jeremy would be entitled to reasonable remuneration for any services rendered to the Company.  The position would be still more complicated if Jeremy claimed he was an employee of the Company as opposed to a director simply providing services to the Company.

If they Company wanted to refuse to pay him because he had been imprisoned, I think the remaining directors would have to prove bad faith on his part in the conduct of his duties for the Company.

guest29835

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Re: The Official Jeremy Bamber and White House Farm Podcast Series - Season 1
« Reply #1188 on: November 12, 2021, 11:22:AM »
Yes.

An appellant is someone who applies to a higher court for a reversal of the decision of a lower court.

If Bamber's conviction is ever overturned he could enter into litigation with cousin Ann over the estate and would then be a litigant.

Yes something to do with the estate I think.  In this case he was a litigant.

He would be a litigant in all the examples you mention, both civil and criminal.  The term 'litigant' is generic for somebody who is party to any legal proceedings and is rarely actually used by lawyers, court officers and judges, except when referring to people who represent themselves - who are known as 'litigants-in-person', or, more rarely, 'pro se litigants'.  I once told a Crown Court judge I was representing myself 'pro se'.  He didn't bat an eyelid.  Anyway, I have a book called 'Criminal Litigation'.  It is the official book used by most educational providers to train prospective solicitors. 

In the case of estates litigation, and other civil litigation, he would either be the Claimant or the Defendant (depending on how is bringing the proceedings), though in some civil litigation (such as family courts), the parties can be known as Applicant and Respondent.

The point I am making to you is that the term 'litigant' is generic and correct in all cases when referring to parties, but nobody who is actually involved in the law ever uses it in the way you insist on using it on this thread, and even then you are not using it correctly because you seem to think it is only a term for civil litigation.

Offline Roch

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Re: The Official Jeremy Bamber and White House Farm Podcast Series - Season 1
« Reply #1189 on: November 13, 2021, 10:38:AM »
Meanwhile, this January Bamber will be the same age as Mr Bamber snr when his life was cut short by his son.

As you're no doubt already aware, it is far more likely that Jeremy's main protector from his relatives' jealousy and avarice, was himself slain by his own daughter. My own lay-person's theory is that Nevill died because he attempted to stop Sheila from joining her children on the other side.

Offline lookout

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Re: The Official Jeremy Bamber and White House Farm Podcast Series - Season 1
« Reply #1190 on: November 13, 2021, 11:08:AM »
I can go along with that Roch.

guest29835

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Re: The Official Jeremy Bamber and White House Farm Podcast Series - Season 1
« Reply #1191 on: November 13, 2021, 11:10:AM »
As you're no doubt already aware, it is far more likely that Jeremy's main protector from his relatives' jealousy and avarice, was himself slain by his own daughter. My own lay-person's theory is that Nevill died because he attempted to stop Sheila from joining her children on the other side.

So, is your scenario that Sheila was upstairs already when Nevill confronted her?  She had already killed the children and shot June at least once, and Nevill tried to stop her killing herself, is that right?

In that scenario, when does Nevill make the phone call to Jeremy and why?

If Nevill makes the call after discovering or realising that the children have been shot, why does he ring Jeremy at all?  Why not 999?

How do Nevill and Sheila end up downstairs and how does the struggle or fight take place?

Offline Roch

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Re: The Official Jeremy Bamber and White House Farm Podcast Series - Season 1
« Reply #1192 on: November 13, 2021, 01:03:PM »
So, is your scenario that Sheila was upstairs already when Nevill confronted her?  She had already killed the children and shot June at least once, and Nevill tried to stop her killing herself, is that right?

In that scenario, when does Nevill make the phone call to Jeremy and why?

If Nevill makes the call after discovering or realising that the children have been shot, why does he ring Jeremy at all?  Why not 999?

How do Nevill and Sheila end up downstairs and how does the struggle or fight take place?

Is it possible Nevill didn't know the children had already been shot? That he is instead, engaged in attempting to prevent Sheila from committing suicide?  Nobody can truly know the fate of the twins unless they enter the room. Of course, their fate could be guessed upon, if the shots were heard from the adjacent room. The thing is, neither parent would have any idea whatsoever that Sheila was capable of sending her own children to heaven, so to speak. I realize I've not fully answered your questions.
« Last Edit: November 13, 2021, 01:03:PM by Roch »

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Re: The Official Jeremy Bamber and White House Farm Podcast Series - Season 1
« Reply #1193 on: November 13, 2021, 01:39:PM »
Is it possible Nevill didn't know the children had already been shot? That he is instead, engaged in attempting to prevent Sheila from committing suicide?  Nobody can truly know the fate of the twins unless they enter the room. Of course, their fate could be guessed upon, if the shots were heard from the adjacent room. The thing is, neither parent would have any idea whatsoever that Sheila was capable of sending her own children to heaven, so to speak. I realize I've not fully answered your questions.

Well you did propose that Nevill was trying to stop Sheila killing herself after killing her children.  But if you want to change it, then Nevill trying to stop her committing suicide also raises a problem.  It's not plausible due to the specification of the weapon.  Just think about how she would have to go about killing herself using that rifle. It would be a very deliberative process, giving Nevill ample chance to intervene and stop her.

In my view, and after due consideration of the available facts and evidence, the only plausible and internally consistent Sheila scenario - in outline - is the following:

1. Sheila is schizophrenic.  Schizophrenics wander around at night.  Sheila can't sleep and wanders round the house.  She is upset and fearful (or angstful) as she considers the kitchen conversation earlier.

2. Nevill finds Sheila in the kitchen.  Sheila has the weapon.  It is loaded.

3. Nevill is trying to reason with Sheila, and rings Jeremy as a way of stalling her or persuading her to stop.  "If you don't stop, I'll ring Jeremy....Right, I'm calling Jeremy now...", etc.  That type of thing.

4. As Jeremy answers the phone, Sheila runs out of the kitchen and makes for the stairs.

5. Nevill terminates the call and goes after her.

6. Sheila fires on Nevill from the stairs, injuring him badly.  This is consistent with the blood evidence and the distribution of the spent cartridges on the landing.  She is advancing on him.  He turns and conspicuously makes for the kitchen, in an attempt to draw her away from the rest of the family upstairs.

7. Nevill and Sheila are now struggling in the kitchen, or Sheila just hits Nevill with the butt of the rifle, or whatever.  (Note: it is possible that the phone call to Jeremy happened at this point, just before Sheila reaches the kitchen, rather than earlier, but that would require that a police officer wipes the kitchen phone).

8. Nevill is unconscious.  I suspect he didn't die for some time and may have been alive and in and out of consciousness when Sheila killed herself later.  This is due to the accumulation of blood.

9. Sheila returns upstairs without reloading and shoots June.  She may have heard June shouting on the landing, etc.  Lookout's theory that June was first shot on the stairs may well be correct, as there needs to be a reason for a confrontation between Sheila and June, otherwise why wouldn't Sheila just go straight to the twins, then kill herself?

10. Sheila shoots June, initially only injuring her.  Sheila realises she out of ammunition.  She returns downstairs.  June is now crawling round the master bedroom towards the link door to the twins' room.

11. Sheila reloads the rifle and returns upstairs.  This time she shoots the twins, then shoots June, or maybe the order was June first, then the twins.  There may be at least one further fusillade if she has to re-load, depending on whether she could re-load the magazine fully.

12. Sheila then washes or cleans herself, and wipes the rifle action, then deliberately shoots herself.  She has a flash of clarity, and is ashamed of what she has done, therefore she doesn't commit this act in the twins' room but assumes she faces a long prison sentence and public opprobrium, etc., and thinks suicide is now her only way out.  She cries.  She knows her body will be found - obviously - and looking clean is important to her.

13. I have no idea if the movement at the window was Sheila.  The starting point with that would be astronomical charts to ascertain if moon light is a plausible explanation.  It doesn't necessarily matter to this scenario if Sheila was alive at a later point or not, was seen in the kitchen by the Raid Group, or even cut into an emergency phone line.  The ending is the same in either event. 

I posted more detailed Sheila scenarios in the past, but that will do as an outline.  Obviously there will be questions and issues with it.  I don't say this is perfect.  I also don't presume to say I know what happened, but I do say that this is roughly (allowing for variations) the only plausible way it could have happened if Jeremy is innocent.

Offline Adam

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Re: The Official Jeremy Bamber and White House Farm Podcast Series - Season 1
« Reply #1194 on: November 13, 2021, 01:45:PM »
1. Sheila is schizophrenic.  Schizophrenics wander around at night.  Sheila can't sleep and wanders round the house.  She is upset and fearful (or angstful) as she considers the kitchen conversation earlier.

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Do they wander around at night?

What conversation?
'Only I know what really happened that night'.

Offline Adam

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Re: The Official Jeremy Bamber and White House Farm Podcast Series - Season 1
« Reply #1195 on: November 13, 2021, 01:46:PM »
2. Nevill finds Sheila in the kitchen.  Sheila has the weapon.  It is loaded.

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A fully fit Nevill takes weapon off Sheila.
'Only I know what really happened that night'.

guest29835

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Re: The Official Jeremy Bamber and White House Farm Podcast Series - Season 1
« Reply #1196 on: November 13, 2021, 01:47:PM »
1. Sheila is schizophrenic.  Schizophrenics wander around at night.  Sheila can't sleep and wanders round the house.  She is upset and fearful (or angstful) as she considers the kitchen conversation earlier.

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Do they wander around at night?

What conversation?

I am addressing Roch.  I am not terribly interested in what you have to say about it.

Your proposition is that Jeremy’s guilt is obvious.  If that were the case, this Forum would not exist and, to reverse your own logic, countless lawyers would not have worked on his applications for appeal over decades.  They have professional duties and if his case was hopeless, they would have just told him that he had no basis for a viable appeal and shouldn’t bother.

Clearly his guilt is not clear-cut, or you would not spend a large chunk of your own time over many years on this Forum. 

Offline Adam

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Re: The Official Jeremy Bamber and White House Farm Podcast Series - Season 1
« Reply #1197 on: November 13, 2021, 01:47:PM »
3. Nevill is trying to reason with Sheila, and rings Jeremy as a way of stalling her or persuading her to stop.  "If you don't stop, I'll ring Jeremy....Right, I'm calling Jeremy now...", etc.  That type of thing

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See my last post.

Ringing Bamber  ;D
'Only I know what really happened that night'.

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Re: The Official Jeremy Bamber and White House Farm Podcast Series - Season 1
« Reply #1198 on: November 13, 2021, 01:49:PM »
2. Nevill finds Sheila in the kitchen.  Sheila has the weapon.  It is loaded.

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A fully fit Nevill takes weapon off Sheila.

You can't make that assumption.  I've explained why in the past - at length.  I won't go over it again. 

Offline Adam

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Re: The Official Jeremy Bamber and White House Farm Podcast Series - Season 1
« Reply #1199 on: November 13, 2021, 01:49:PM »
4. As Jeremy answers the phone, Sheila runs out of the kitchen and makes for the stairs.

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See post 1195.

Nevill would have had to wait several minutes for Bamber to answer. What was Sheila doing?
'Only I know what really happened that night'.