Author Topic: The Official Jeremy Bamber and White House Farm Podcast Series - Season 1  (Read 126409 times)

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Offline lookout

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Re: The Official Jeremy Bamber and White House Farm Podcast Series
« Reply #795 on: August 20, 2021, 02:24:PM »
Polygraph machines are very sensitive and can pick up a persons physiological state as well as a psychiatric one and where JB's concerned no matter how many times a test was taken it wouldn't register a failing because each time he knows himself that he hadn't committed an offence of any sort.
I bet it wouldn't give the same reading with everyone else !

Offline Steve_uk

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Re: The Official Jeremy Bamber and White House Farm Podcast Series
« Reply #796 on: August 20, 2021, 09:18:PM »
When the Green River killer passed it it shows a polygraph can't be relied upon.

Offline lookout

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Re: The Official Jeremy Bamber and White House Farm Podcast Series
« Reply #797 on: August 21, 2021, 09:07:AM »
I don't suppose it would be reliable if a person proved to be as mad as a hatter Steve.

Offline Rob_

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Re: The Official Jeremy Bamber and White House Farm Podcast Series
« Reply #798 on: August 21, 2021, 11:02:AM »
The polygraph is not perfect and can be fooled, but is thought to be around 90% accurate.

I would like to see what would happen if everyone involved in the case took the test?

Offline Roch

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Re: The Official Jeremy Bamber and White House Farm Podcast Series
« Reply #799 on: August 21, 2021, 11:09:AM »
I would like to see what would happen if everyone involved in the case took the test?

I've often wondered this. But.. has Mullins ever failed anyone? He seems to be the go to guy for a certain type of client.

Offline Adam

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Re: The Official Jeremy Bamber and White House Farm Podcast Series
« Reply #800 on: August 21, 2021, 12:33:PM »
I've often wondered this. But.. has Mullins ever failed anyone? He seems to be the go to guy for a certain type of client.

The CT paid Mullins to conduct the test. Would have been a surprise if Bamber failed.
'Only I know what really happened that night'.

Offline lookout

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Re: The Official Jeremy Bamber and White House Farm Podcast Series
« Reply #801 on: August 22, 2021, 02:22:PM »
The CT paid Mullins to conduct the test. Would have been a surprise if Bamber failed.





Why ?

guest29835

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Re: The Official Jeremy Bamber and White House Farm Podcast Series
« Reply #802 on: August 26, 2021, 01:58:PM »
Agree with that.

Bamber did something once. Then has spent the next 36 years saying he didn't do it. He may have been able to blank it out of his mind, if not completely, then he is able to justify his actions to himself.

This together with the motivation that passing a test will boost his campaign, would have made it easy for him to say 'no' when answering the expected question.

That's sort of what I'm getting at, but I'm really talking about the idea that when somebody does something terrible, they will often construct an entirely alternate narrative that they come to believe in.  That sounds weird and paradoxical, and I can understand if you are sceptical about the idea, even scoff at it.  It's not necessarily common experience.  But I do think a lot of people genuinely believe their own lies, especially if the extent of the lie is deep and has been maintained for a very long time.

It has nothing to do with rationalisation or justification.  It is simply a lie.  Sometimes (as it will be in this case, if Jeremy is guilty) it is virtually an entirely constructed false alternate reality - a fantasy world.  It starts with the offender lying to himself.  Dissimulation and fabrication can be an essential survival strategy, especially in high security prisons, but in some cases it may become the basis of an offender's reality, in his own head.  Thus, paradoxically, a lie becomes true.

The reason I labour the point is that it could go some way to explain why Jeremy has passed the polygraph test.  This point is independent of his guilt or innocence, though it's obviously more useful for guilters and sceptics to consider.  By the time he took the polygraph, Jeremy had served 20 or more years in custody.  Think about it.  That's 20 years to construct an alternate narrative that he then promotes aggressively and, quite possibly, comes to genuinely believe in.  Hence, he comes across as genuine and his fine-tuned physiological responses betray nothing other than that he is a truthful subject.  And in a sense, he is telling the truth, even if he is guilty!

Of course, here I am putting aside my scepticism of the whole field of polygraphology.  I am adopting the assumption that the polygraph is valid, and on that premise, I am considering how a guilty person could pass it with flying colours - albeit it would still raise questions about the usefulness of the test (even if the methodology is valid).

An additional point, which is related, is that if Jeremy is guilty but has a guilty conscience about it (i.e. he is either not a clinical psychopath or no longer a psychopath, he is psychologically normal), then this guilty conscience may be projected through his aggressive defence of his claimed innocence. 

guest29835

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Re: The Official Jeremy Bamber and White House Farm Podcast Series
« Reply #803 on: August 26, 2021, 02:07:PM »
I will make this a separate post in which I wanted to make some further points about the interview with Terry Mullins.

I think the podcast was very good, maybe the best one yet.  Mullins is an engaging interviewee and knowledgeable and expert in his field.

However, the podcast deepened my scepticism of his field.  A major point is that there was no prior psychological evaluation of Jeremy in preparation for the polygraph test.  This was not Mullins' fault, rather it was due to restrictions put on him by the Prison Service, which seems petty.

Another point is that I got the impression from Mullins' answers that the underlying science of polygraphology is pretty vague and it's mainly based on psychology and cognitive science.  At one point, he refers to 'cognitive load', which seems like a woolly metaphor for something.  I am not sure either psychology or cognitive science can be considered science in a proper sense.

Finally, I'm not sure it is known what all the questions were.  Apparently 12 questions were put to Jeremy but we only know three of them.  Why is that (assuming I am correct)?

All this got me thinking about the conditions under which a rigorous polygraph test could be completed and what questions I would ask Jeremy.  I may add more on that at some point.  Don't have time for it now.

guest29835

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Re: The Official Jeremy Bamber and White House Farm Podcast Series
« Reply #804 on: August 26, 2021, 02:11:PM »
Latest podcast:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WbYZ4r9WalQ

It's fair to say most people on here regularly are expert to some degree in the case, so this may not be of much interest to the usual crowd for comment purposes; but we may have people looking in who are new to the Bamber affair.

Offline Roch

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Re: The Official Jeremy Bamber and White House Farm Podcast Series
« Reply #805 on: August 27, 2021, 06:09:PM »
Latest podcast:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WbYZ4r9WalQ

It's fair to say most people on here regularly are expert to some degree in the case, so this may not be of much interest to the usual crowd for comment purposes; but we may have people looking in who are new to the Bamber affair.

I heard a snippet and I totally get their take on it. It's just a shame that the CCRC probably won't ... and will probably invite Ann Eaton to lunch when the rejection is done and dusted.
« Last Edit: August 27, 2021, 06:10:PM by Roch »

Offline Rob_

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Re: The Official Jeremy Bamber and White House Farm Podcast Series
« Reply #806 on: August 27, 2021, 06:20:PM »
I heard a snippet and I totally get their take on it. It's just a shame that the CCRC probably won't ... and will probably invite Ann Eaton to lunch when the rejection is done and dusted.

I just don't understand? Every single aspect of this case has severe doubt's about it? so much undisclosed information. I know nothing about the law but I thought we lived in one of the fairest country's in the world?

What happened that day that EP had to invoke so a huge cover up? The more I read the worse it gets!

Offline David1819

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Re: The Official Jeremy Bamber and White House Farm Podcast Series
« Reply #807 on: August 27, 2021, 09:23:PM »
I just don't understand? Every single aspect of this case has severe doubt's about it? so much undisclosed information. I know nothing about the law but I thought we lived in one of the fairest country's in the world?


http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,9395.msg437729.html#msg437729

Offline Rob_

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Re: The Official Jeremy Bamber and White House Farm Podcast Series
« Reply #808 on: August 27, 2021, 09:57:PM »

http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,9395.msg437729.html#msg437729

Thanks David, the problem is that the general public me included before I came on here thinks the case against JB is watertight!

Offline Steve_uk

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Re: The Official Jeremy Bamber and White House Farm Podcast Series
« Reply #809 on: August 28, 2021, 01:11:AM »
Thanks David, the problem is that the general public me included before I came on here thinks the case against JB is watertight!
I won't have new members brainwashed by fools, amateur gun enthusiasts or pseudo-intellectuals. It's time to ruffle a few feathers:

CLAIM: There was no forensic evidence whatsoever implicating Jeremy Bamber.

FACT: White House Farm was Jeremy's second home. As such there would be traces of his presence in situ. Much of the crime scene evidence was compromised anyway due to the cutting of the carpets and the burning of material. By the time John Hayward came to examine his clothes hanging up in the wardrobe at Bourtree Cottage in Goldhanger tiny spots of blood were detected, though too few for meaningful forensic analysis.

CLAIM: There was only one fingerprint of Jeremy's on the murder weapon.

FACT: True, along with one of Sheila's, but why if he had been shooting rabbits only hours previously were more of his fingerprints not visible on the gun? A woman in psychosis is not going to wipe down the murder weapon: a man who wiped the gun after the fight with Nevill after a glove came off is.

CLAIM: Sheila had a psychotic episode and Nevill telephoned the police.

FACT: Sheila had trace elements of Haloperidol in her system. She had been stabilized and her medication reduced because she had been over-medicated previously. There is no record of Nevill Bamber ever reaching a telephone, because Jeremy Bamber had removed that lifeline from the master bedroom. No blood on the kitchen telephone suggests Nevill never reached it. Had there been a record of  Nevill's call PC West would have produced it for his boss, DCI Taff Jones, and the case would have been closed there and then.

CLAIM: Julie Mugford was complicit in the crimes.

FACT: Julie was located at Caterham Road, London. Had she wanted to make the case water-tight she would have spent the evening of 6th August 1985 in Jeremy's bed and vouched for a telephone call from Nevill to back up his story. The fact that she had been smoking cannabis and told him to go back to bed suggests there had been no such pre-conceived mutual murder plan.

CLAIM: The Matthew McDonald hitman story proves that Julie's statement to police was a pack of lies.

FACT: Julie was repeating Jeremy's pack of lies he had told her to police.

CLAIM: Julie didn't go to police, which proves her story is worthless.

FACT: Liz Rimington telephoned police. The Bamberettes want it all ways: that Julie went gung-ho to police out of revenge, desperately wanting a conviction. When in fact Julie was reluctant to go to police this is because the grounds on which she might have gone to police were shaky.

CLAIM: Julie wanted to live at Vaulty Manor, be Lady of the Manor etc.

FACT: Julie was trying to hold down a career all through the time she was associated with Jeremy Bamber. She was never a something-for-nothing person. As stated in the podcast she had been on a working holiday, one of several jobs she held down during that period. Had she wanted to get her claws into Jeremy Bamber she could have fallen pregnant at any time.
« Last Edit: August 28, 2021, 05:03:AM by Steve_uk »