Author Topic: The Official Jeremy Bamber and White House Farm Podcast Series - Season 1  (Read 128658 times)

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Offline Roch

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Re: The Official Jeremy Bamber and White House Farm Podcast Series
« Reply #780 on: August 12, 2021, 08:40:AM »
It was Liz Rimington who telephoned Witham Police, but these podcasts are a work of fiction and half-truths at best anyhow.

Across the whole, they raise a few queries, for example, has it come to light that Nevill's blood was originally discovered on Sheila's nightdress. You have to read between the lines when you listen. 

Offline Steve_uk

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Re: The Official Jeremy Bamber and White House Farm Podcast Series
« Reply #781 on: August 12, 2021, 10:10:AM »
Across the whole, they raise a few queries, for example, has it come to light that Nevill's blood was originally discovered on Sheila's nightdress. You have to read between the lines when you listen.
Wasn't this dealt with at the 2002 appeal (Point 51):

Mrs. Caffell's nightdress was bloodstained. When tested the blood was consistent with being her own blood. The garment was also examined for the presence of any firearm discharge residues or oil from the rifle. No such traces were found. The scientist gave evidence that there would be a strong chance of finding such residues or markings on the clothing of an individual who had fired a rifle twenty-five times.

Offline Roch

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Re: The Official Jeremy Bamber and White House Farm Podcast Series
« Reply #782 on: August 12, 2021, 11:26:AM »
Wasn't this dealt with at the 2002 appeal (Point 51):

Mrs. Caffell's nightdress was bloodstained. When tested the blood was consistent with being her own blood.

I can't speak for the defence or CT. However, an early podcast suggested that Sheila may have placed herself next to Nevill. I believe the phrase they used implied that there would be physical contact and therefore potential blood transfer.

Offline Bill Robertson

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Re: The Official Jeremy Bamber and White House Farm Podcast Series
« Reply #783 on: August 12, 2021, 02:59:PM »
Wasn't this dealt with at the 2002 appeal (Point 51):

Mrs. Caffell's nightdress was bloodstained. When tested the blood was consistent with being her own blood. The garment was also examined for the presence of any firearm discharge residues or oil from the rifle. No such traces were found.
This is typical of the nonsensical bullshit evidence that is spouted by the COA. Gunshot residue is invisible to the naked eye, so of course Fletcher failed to detect any when he looked at the nightdress. He didn’t carry out any tests to detect GSR

Offline Roch

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Re: The Official Jeremy Bamber and White House Farm Podcast Series
« Reply #784 on: August 16, 2021, 10:36:AM »
New podcast:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BEpAJiJHcQA

A dramatisation, but the narrator claims that documentary evidence has been found that Julie was not the one who initially went to the police.

If you were offered a voiceover part, who would you play?

As in 'The Last Week'.
« Last Edit: August 16, 2021, 10:52:AM by Roch »

guest29835

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Re: The Official Jeremy Bamber and White House Farm Podcast Series
« Reply #785 on: August 20, 2021, 03:38:AM »
It was Liz Rimington who telephoned Witham Police, but these podcasts are a work of fiction and half-truths at best anyhow.

Some claims made by the CT are dubious, in my opinion; other claims are interesting.  This particular claim cannot be assessed until we can see the document on which they rely.

guest29835

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Re: The Official Jeremy Bamber and White House Farm Podcast Series
« Reply #786 on: August 20, 2021, 03:46:AM »
I don't particularly want to discuss the case on here, but will update this thread and add my own brief comment on each podcast.

The latest CT podcast is on the topic of the polygraph test, which Jeremy passed with flying colours. 

Here we are:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OL9TLqeyV3U&t=51s

This podcast is quite interesting and I am pleased to report that the HAL 9000 has been given a rest and we can actually hear the voices of real human beings.

I recommend you have a listen.  Make of it what you will.

I have commented on a previous thread with my view on polygraphology and I touched on some of the obvious flaws and pitfalls in any applied discipline that attempts to draw forensic conclusions based on theories about psychophysiology. 

In a nutshell, I can't take polygraph testing seriously - but I am not an expert.  My layman's scepticism only deepened as I listened to Mr Mullins explain his methods in this podcast.  It's not so much a criticism of Mr Mullins, rather a criticism of the discipline to which he is clearly committed and out of which he seems able to draw sweeping conclusions about the case.

One eye-catching claim the CT and the polygraph expert are making is that Jeremy graded in the top 5% of  examinees, implying (in their view) a conclusive result and that he must be telling the truth.

Offline Adam

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Re: The Official Jeremy Bamber and White House Farm Podcast Series
« Reply #787 on: August 20, 2021, 08:08:AM »
Bamber has probably convinced himself he is innocent. Or at the least justified in his actions due to the hatred and raw deal he believed he was getting. He told Julie why each person should be killed.

The lie detector test was no preasure. The questions would be expected. He would just have to say 'yes' or 'no'. A failure would not be reported by the CT. Someone as calculated as Bamber was always likely to pass. Which is why he kept requesting one.
'Only I know what really happened that night'.

Offline Roch

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Re: The Official Jeremy Bamber and White House Farm Podcast Series
« Reply #788 on: August 20, 2021, 08:22:AM »
How many questions were there? I've read there were only three. GDS claimed that there were far more questions. If that's not true, it's not good.

Offline Adam

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Re: The Official Jeremy Bamber and White House Farm Podcast Series
« Reply #789 on: August 20, 2021, 08:28:AM »
How many questions were there? I've read there were only three. GDS claimed that there were far more questions. If that's not true, it's not good.

https://www.jeremy-bamber.co.uk/lie-detector

Apparently it lasted over 100 minutes. But they only mention one question. Which Bamber said 'no' to.

'Only I know what really happened that night'.

Offline Rob_

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Re: The Official Jeremy Bamber and White House Farm Podcast Series
« Reply #790 on: August 20, 2021, 08:29:AM »
In my view JB was taking a big risk taking the test, if he was guilty he would not know if he could fool the polygraph? if he failed he would never be released.

Why did it take 7 or 8 years for him to be allowed to take the test? perhaps the authorities know he is innocent and would pass?

Would some of the people in the case suspected of tampering with evidence etc. also take one??

Offline Adam

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Re: The Official Jeremy Bamber and White House Farm Podcast Series
« Reply #791 on: August 20, 2021, 08:47:AM »
In my view JB was taking a big risk taking the test, if he was guilty he would not know if he could fool the polygraph? if he failed he would never be released.

Why did it take 7 or 8 years for him to be allowed to take the test? perhaps the authorities know he is innocent and would pass?

Would some of the people in the case suspected of tampering with evidence etc. also take one??

Doubt that failure would mean he would never be released. The CT simply would not mention it. If it came to light he could just give excuses for failure. A lie detector is not taken into account by the UK legal system to determine guilt, innocence or a MOJ.

It is doubtful he will ever be released. He knew this so had nothing to lose in requesting one. Passing one could be reported to the media & included on the OS.
« Last Edit: August 20, 2021, 08:48:AM by Adam »
'Only I know what really happened that night'.

Offline Steve_uk

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Re: The Official Jeremy Bamber and White House Farm Podcast Series
« Reply #792 on: August 20, 2021, 09:27:AM »
In my view JB was taking a big risk taking the test, if he was guilty he would not know if he could fool the polygraph? if he failed he would never be released.

Why did it take 7 or 8 years for him to be allowed to take the test? perhaps the authorities know he is innocent and would pass?

Would some of the people in the case suspected of tampering with evidence etc. also take one??
He didn't regard the victims as his family so the questions are bogus and the test is null and void.

guest29835

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Re: The Official Jeremy Bamber and White House Farm Podcast Series
« Reply #793 on: August 20, 2021, 12:44:PM »
Bamber has probably convinced himself he is innocent. Or at the least justified in his actions due to the hatred and raw deal he believed he was getting. He told Julie why each person should be killed.

The lie detector test was no preasure. The questions would be expected. He would just have to say 'yes' or 'no'. A failure would not be reported by the CT. Someone as calculated as Bamber was always likely to pass. Which is why he kept requesting one.

If - for the sake of argument - we assume for a moment that polygraph tests are valid and can be relied on, the reason Jeremy was able to pass is that he has constructed an alternate narrative of the case that he has come to believe, because he has to, either because it is true, or because he is guilty and needs to believe in this alternate narrative.  In the latter case, the alternate narrative could be a projection of his own guilty conscience. 

All liars, petty and serious, engage in a form of double-think in which they know what they say is not true but they also believe in it.  That may sound odd, but if you think about it, it makes sense.  If you've done something wrong, you may easily come to convince yourself that you didn't do it.  Liars on this scale often come to sincerely believe in a completely alternative world and in effect become schizoid and delusional. 

Of course, that's just speculation in the case of Jeremy.  In any event, polygraphology is too simple.  It does not take account of psychological nuances.  It is easy to imagine an innocent person failing a polygraph because innocent people are, by the very nature of their innocence, doubtful about facts and may be nervous and so on.  Equally, a guilty person is nervous, but knows what he has done and this knowledge may give him the confidence to ride through a fine-tuned test of his physiological responses.  Or it may not.  We're left in the same place with the same questions.  A polygraph result is practically useless.

Offline Adam

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Re: The Official Jeremy Bamber and White House Farm Podcast Series
« Reply #794 on: August 20, 2021, 12:57:PM »
If - for the sake of argument - we assume for a moment that polygraph tests are valid and can be relied on, the reason Jeremy was able to pass is that he has constructed an alternate narrative of the case that he has come to believe, because he has to, either because it is true, or because he is guilty and needs to believe in this alternate narrative.  In the latter case, the alternate narrative could be a projection of his own guilty conscience. 

All liars, petty and serious, engage in a form of double-think in which they know what they say is not true but they also believe in it.  That may sound odd, but if you think about it, it makes sense.  If you've done something wrong, you may easily come to convince yourself that you didn't do it.  Liars on this scale often come to sincerely believe in a completely alternative world and in effect become schizoid and delusional. 

Of course, that's just speculation in the case of Jeremy.  In any event, polygraphology is too simple.  It does not take account of psychological nuances.  It is easy to imagine an innocent person failing a polygraph because innocent people are, by the very nature of their innocence, doubtful about facts and may be nervous and so on.  Equally, a guilty person is nervous, but knows what he has done and this knowledge may give him the confidence to ride through a fine-tuned test of his physiological responses.  Or it may not.  We're left in the same place with the same questions.  A polygraph result is practically useless.

Agree with that.

Bamber did something once. Then has spent the next 36 years saying he didn't do it. He may have been able to blank it out of his mind, if not completely, then he is able to justify his actions to himself.

This together with the motivation that passing a test will boost his campaign, would have made it easy for him to say 'no' when answering the expected question. 
« Last Edit: August 20, 2021, 12:58:PM by Adam »
'Only I know what really happened that night'.