Author Topic: Why Nevill would instantly negate Sheila while fully fit:  (Read 4668 times)

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Offline Adam

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Reasons why Nevill would instantly negate Sheila while fully fit -

It would be an automatic response as a father.

It would be an automatic response as a husband.

It would be an automatic response as a grandfather.

It would be an automatic response to protect himself.

It would be automatic response as head of the family.

He had work in a few hours and needed rest.

The rifle Sheila was holding was to kill vermin.

Nevill would know the rifle was not powerful.

Sheila had no experience with the rifle.

He had a 9 inch and 7 stone advantage over Sheila.

He had a military background.

He was physically fit.

He was physically alert & coordinated. Unlike Sheila.

He had several objects to use if charging Sheila - stool, chair.

He had no other option. June was upstairs asleep. Friends and relatives were miles away & it was 3am.

He did not need any physical help to take the rifle off Sheila.

If he couldn't calm Sheila down, no one could. His only option was to take the rifle back.

Unlikely he would need to charge Sheila. It was a long rifle in a confined space.

He would not consider phoning the police, as had no time.

Once in a physical battle for the rifle, Nevill would win within a few seconds.

Nevill will be angry that he had left the rifle out. So would want to recitify this straight away.

Nevill would know a lucky accurate torso shot from Sheila would not stop him getting the rifle back.

Nevill may not believe Sheila would fire the rifle. He was not going to guve her the chance anyway.

If he felt comfortable enough & had the time to ring anyone, he would have taken the easier option - take the rifle. 
« Last Edit: August 28, 2020, 04:45:AM by Adam »
'Only I know what really happened that night'.

Offline lookout

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Re: Why Nevill would negate Sheila while fully fit:
« Reply #1 on: August 27, 2020, 07:37:PM »
Nevill wasn't armed ! What chance anyone against an armed person ?

Offline Adam

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Re: Why Nevill would negate Sheila while fully fit:
« Reply #2 on: August 27, 2020, 07:48:PM »
Nevill wasn't armed ! What chance anyone against an armed person ?

Nevill would have no choice to negate the situation straight away. He had no time to seek help from June & did not need her physical or verbal help.   

It would also be an automatic response and he would be confident of resolving everything straight away without injury.
« Last Edit: August 27, 2020, 07:49:PM by Adam »
'Only I know what really happened that night'.

Offline Adam

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Re: Why Nevill would negate Sheila while fully fit:
« Reply #3 on: August 27, 2020, 07:56:PM »
Nevill ringing anyone was not an option he would have considered -

Nevill had no choice to negate Sheila straight away. As she was aggressive.

Sheila was holding the rifle but was not being agressive. So easy to negate & get the rifle back.

---------

He either had no time to or did not need to make any phone calls.
« Last Edit: August 27, 2020, 08:03:PM by Adam »
'Only I know what really happened that night'.

Offline Adam

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Re: Why Nevill would negate Sheila while fully fit:
« Reply #4 on: August 27, 2020, 08:00:PM »
There is no situation where a fully fit Nevill would have chosen to ring anyone.

Taking the rifle back while fully fit was the only option he would have taken.
« Last Edit: August 27, 2020, 08:00:PM by Adam »
'Only I know what really happened that night'.

Offline lookout

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Re: Why Nevill would negate Sheila while fully fit:
« Reply #5 on: August 27, 2020, 08:10:PM »
A fully fit Nevill would have fought off his attacker and caused some very bad injuries. Did either Sheila or Jeremy sustain such injuries ?

Offline Adam

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Re: Why Nevill would negate Sheila while fully fit:
« Reply #6 on: August 27, 2020, 08:50:PM »
Nevill ringing anyone was not an option he would have considered -

Nevill had no choice to negate Sheila straight away. As she was aggressive.

Sheila was holding the rifle but was not being agressive. So easy to negate & get the rifle back.


---------

He either had no time to or did not need to make any phone calls.

The second option would have been an automatic reaction from Nevill anyway. For the reasons mentioned in the thread post.
« Last Edit: August 27, 2020, 08:50:PM by Adam »
'Only I know what really happened that night'.

Offline Adam

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Re: Why Nevill would negate Sheila while fully fit:
« Reply #7 on: August 27, 2020, 09:51:PM »
A fully fit Nevill would have fought off his attacker and caused some very bad injuries. Did either Sheila or Jeremy sustain such injuries ?

Nevill was not fully fit when against Bamber. Or fully clothed.
'Only I know what really happened that night'.

Offline Adam

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Re: Why Nevill would negate Sheila while fully fit:
« Reply #8 on: August 27, 2020, 10:41:PM »
There is no middle ground where Nevill would think 'I'll ring Jeremy'.
 
Sheila had the rifle & was acting agressively with it as though she might fire it. Nevill would automatically have to get the rifle back while fully fit.

Sheila had the rifle & was acting passively with it. As though she won't use it. Nevill will automatically get the rifle back while fully fit.
« Last Edit: August 27, 2020, 10:42:PM by Adam »
'Only I know what really happened that night'.

guest29835

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Re: Why Nevill would instantly negate Sheila while fully fit:
« Reply #9 on: August 28, 2020, 10:28:AM »
Reasons why Nevill would instantly negate Sheila while fully fit -

It would be an automatic response as a father.

It would be an automatic response as a husband.

It would be an automatic response as a grandfather.

It would be an automatic response to protect himself.

It would be automatic response as head of the family.

Behind this are lots of assumptions: for instance, you don't know under what circumstances she grabbed the rifle in the first place.  She would have had to load it with the magazine, which suggests she would have been out of Nevill's sight. 

He had work in a few hours and needed rest.

He was tired.  Thanks Adam.

The rifle Sheila was holding was to kill vermin.

Nevill would know the rifle was not powerful.

Thanks Adam.

Sheila had no experience with the rifle.

You don't know that.

He had a 9 inch and 7 stone advantage over Sheila.

Have you ever been in a fight?  A shorter and slighter person can have an edge in that situation.  If she was holding the rifle, and if it was loaded, she could have escaped from Nevill and Nevill would know this and may have tried to reason with her.

He had a military background.

Decades earlier.

He was physically fit.

So was Sheila.

He was physically alert & coordinated. Unlike Sheila.

Sheila was physically alert and coordinated.  She did her nails.  A witness says she skipped up Pages Lane with the children earlier that day.  If she had used the rifle before, or seen it used, or had its use shown to her, she could have used the rifle on the night.

He had several objects to use if charging Sheila - stool, chair. He had no other option. June was upstairs asleep. Friends and relatives were miles away & it was 3am.

He would be careful about injuring Sheila.  It's his daughter.  She's a woman.  She's mentally-ill.  These weaknesses perhaps gave her a psychological edge over her father.

We don't know if June was asleep or not.  I thought June was a light sleeper?

He did not need any physical help to take the rifle off Sheila.

Nobody is suggesting he did, but he was 61 and Sheila was physically fit and light on her feet, and it's his daughter, so it would not have been as simple as you think.

If he couldn't calm Sheila down, no one could. His only option was to take the rifle back.

First, ringing Jeremy doesn't mean he intended for Jeremy to calm Sheila down or even speak to Sheila at all.  He may have just needed Jeremy there because an extra person was needed to help deal with things - for instance, guard the upstairs rooms and keep Sheila downstairs.

One possible scenario is that Nevill rang Jeremy because he had already got Sheila under control.  He has left the rifle leaning nearby and Sheila is stood there.  As soon as he speaks to Jeremy, Sheila goes for the rifle again, and that's why the call ended.   

Unlikely he would need to charge Sheila. It was a long rifle in a confined space.

Depends on how Sheila is holding the rifle.  She may have her finger on the trigger and be pointing it him.  Does he charge her then?

He would not consider phoning the police, as had no time.

Well does he call them or not?  You keep telling us he would.

Once in a physical battle for the rifle, Nevill would win within a few seconds.

Not necessarily.  Sheila would have a tight grip on the rifle and she also has long nails.

Nevill will be angry that he had left the rifle out. So would want to recitify this straight away.

The gun cupboard is not lockable.

Nevill would know a lucky accurate torso shot from Sheila would not stop him getting the rifle back.

It would certainly hurt and it would be a shock to him.

  Nevill may not believe Sheila would fire the rifle. He was not going to guve her the chance anyway.

He has to get the rifle off her first.

If he felt comfortable enough & had the time to ring anyone, he would have taken the easier option - take the rifle.

If he couldn't get the rifle off Sheila, maybe ringing Jeremy was his only option?  It could also be that he it was a psychological tactic that back-fired: he threatened Sheila with calling Jeremy, but this only made her more angry.

guest29835

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Re: Why Nevill would negate Sheila while fully fit:
« Reply #10 on: August 28, 2020, 10:31:AM »
There is no situation where a fully fit Nevill would have chosen to ring anyone.

Taking the rifle back while fully fit was the only option he would have taken.

Sheila was fully fit too.

guest29835

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Re: Why Nevill would negate Sheila while fully fit:
« Reply #11 on: August 28, 2020, 10:33:AM »
Nevill was not fully fit when against Bamber. Or fully clothed.

Yes, I remember you telling us all about how Nevill was shot in his sleep, but still manages to get out of bed without leaving any trace of blood on the bed, get shot three more times, still leaving no blood, and make it downstairs to the kitchen.

Thanks Adam.

Offline lookout

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Re: Why Nevill would negate Sheila while fully fit:
« Reply #12 on: August 28, 2020, 10:35:AM »
Nevill was not fully fit when against Bamber. Or fully clothed.





Make up your mind. Either Nevill was, as you stated, " a fully fit man ", or he wasn't. What's it to be ?

Offline Steve_uk

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Re: Why Nevill would negate Sheila while fully fit:
« Reply #13 on: August 28, 2020, 10:37:AM »
Yes, I remember you telling us all about how Nevill was shot in his sleep, but still manages to get out of bed without leaving any trace of blood on the bed, get shot three more times, still leaving no blood, and make it downstairs to the kitchen.

Thanks Adam.
It's not half as far-fetched as you suggesting Jeremy shot Sheila in her bed, tied up the sheets, cleaned up the mess and proceeded to do some laundry before dumping her corpse in the master bedroom..

guest29835

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Re: Why Nevill would negate Sheila while fully fit:
« Reply #14 on: August 28, 2020, 10:43:AM »
It's not half as far-fetched as you suggesting Jeremy shot Sheila in her bed, tied up the sheets, cleaned up the mess and proceeded to do some laundry before dumping her corpse in the master bedroom..

Why is that far-fetched?  First, why would he need to do any laundry when there was blood everywhere anyway?  It so happens that the blooded sheets were burned by the police later that same day or the day after. 

And I didn't necessarily say that is how he did it.  I said that is how he would have done it if he had planned things out properly, the reason being that he needed to ensure that he shot her in the correct way. 

I notice, by the way, that guilters like you always have difficulty explaining what Sheila was doing during the incident and how Jeremy managed to subdue her and kill her, supposedly without inflicting so much as a cut, bruise or scratch on her.

Thanks Steve.