Author Topic: How Social Harm and Zemiology relate to the JB case  (Read 2526 times)

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Offline lookout

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Re: How Social Harm and Zemiology relate to the JB case
« Reply #15 on: August 25, 2020, 02:40:PM »
I use common sense meself. This is bordering on the political.

guest29835

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Re: How Social Harm and Zemiology relate to the JB case
« Reply #16 on: August 25, 2020, 02:40:PM »
I use common sense meself. This is bordering on the political.

I'm inclined to agree, but it is an interesting topic.

Offline petey

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Re: How Social Harm and Zemiology relate to the JB case
« Reply #17 on: August 25, 2020, 02:42:PM »
Fine, but I'm not trying to get bogged down in academic discourse, rather I'm just trying to understand what you're asking us to discuss.  I confess I'm still not clear.

First, you refer to Social Harms, capital 'S', capital 'H', which would normally be ungrammatical and suggests that you are using a term of art and have something specific in mind.  Could you briefly clarify?

Second, you seem to be suggesting that Jeremy's actions were the source of these social harms (or Social Harms), but Jeremy is not a social institution, he is just an individual, hence the relevance of criminology (and also psychology, etc.).  I don't quite understand how zemiology comes into it unless we are considering how Jeremy's actions were the result of social harms and what those prior social harms are (as well as continuing social harms, as you say).  On the other hand, maybe you are saying that the whole incident and subsequent legal saga, including potentially a miscarriage of justice, should be treated as a potential source of social harm, rather like a malignant organisation.  Again, maybe you could clarify?

You don't have to reply, though.  I'm not trying to weigh the discussion down, but I am quite precise in my thinking.  My understanding of what zemiology is in the first place doesn't quite gel with yours, but I am sure it must be that I have misunderstood you.

https://link.springer.com/chapter/10.1007/978-3-319-76312-5_2

If you have access to a library this gives a good overview

Capitalising is simply my way of referring to the field of study of Social Harms not the study of harms which are social.

« Last Edit: August 25, 2020, 02:45:PM by petey »

Offline lookout

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Re: How Social Harm and Zemiology relate to the JB case
« Reply #18 on: August 25, 2020, 02:48:PM »
I'm inclined to agree, but it is an interesting topic.





Interesting when one has had the practical experiences-----

guest29835

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Re: How Social Harm and Zemiology relate to the JB case
« Reply #19 on: August 25, 2020, 03:52:PM »
https://link.springer.com/chapter/10.1007/978-3-319-76312-5_2

If you have access to a library this gives a good overview

Capitalising is simply my way of referring to the field of study of Social Harms not the study of harms which are social.

OK, thanks, though I don't quite understand why you're linking me to a book.  To be fair, you came on here and used the term 'zemiology' without defining it.  In my opinion, you have not been clear.  You seem to be saying that you think Jeremy's crime resulted in social harms, but my understanding of zemiology is that it is the study of social harms and injuries caused by organisations and institutions, so I am slightly confused.

Perhaps it's better if I stay out of the discussion, but I'm adding this post to explain my confusion.  If you're asking us to agree that Jeremy's crimes had a social impact on people involved and wider groups of people, you'll hear no argument from me, but isn't that already obvious?

guest29835

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Re: How Social Harm and Zemiology relate to the JB case
« Reply #20 on: August 25, 2020, 03:53:PM »




Interesting when one has had the practical experiences-----

Tell us more....

Offline lookout

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Re: How Social Harm and Zemiology relate to the JB case
« Reply #21 on: August 25, 2020, 04:05:PM »
Tell us more....





I wasn't referring to myself.

guest29835

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Re: How Social Harm and Zemiology relate to the JB case
« Reply #22 on: August 25, 2020, 04:11:PM »




I wasn't referring to myself.

Then who?

Offline lookout

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Re: How Social Harm and Zemiology relate to the JB case
« Reply #23 on: August 25, 2020, 04:15:PM »
Then who?






The one who started the thread.

guest29835

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Re: How Social Harm and Zemiology relate to the JB case
« Reply #24 on: August 25, 2020, 04:20:PM »





The one who started the thread.

Oh sorry, I must have misunderstood you.  Maybe ignore this post if you don't want to reply, but I'm wondering: What social harms has he done?  He seems pretty harmless to me.

guest29835

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Re: How Social Harm and Zemiology relate to the JB case
« Reply #25 on: August 25, 2020, 04:22:PM »
Oh sorry, I must have misunderstood you.  Maybe ignore this post if you don't want to reply, but I'm wondering: What social harms has he done?  He seems pretty harmless to me.

I think I know what you mean now.  Just forget it.

Offline petey

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Re: How Social Harm and Zemiology relate to the JB case
« Reply #26 on: August 25, 2020, 06:08:PM »
OK, thanks, though I don't quite understand why you're linking me to a book.  To be fair, you came on here and used the term 'zemiology' without defining it.  In my opinion, you have not been clear.  You seem to be saying that you think Jeremy's crime resulted in social harms, but my understanding of zemiology is that it is the study of social harms and injuries caused by organisations and institutions, so I am slightly confused.

Perhaps it's better if I stay out of the discussion, but I'm adding this post to explain my confusion.  If you're asking us to agree that Jeremy's crimes had a social impact on people involved and wider groups of people, you'll hear no argument from me, but isn't that already obvious?

I just meant if you had access to library materials it was a good starting point as is anything from Hillyard, Tombs, Pemberton on google scholar.

The very definition of Zemiology has been contested in legal parlance and as yet no definitive definition has been found. It comes from the Greek word Zemia, although translating this into English has caused much debate from both an academic and a criminological perspective. The very nature of the definition is discussed at length in Hillyard and Tombs seminal 2004 work and by Pemberton in his later 2015 Harmful Societies book.

Social Harm and Zemiology (the study of social harms) can be used to assess harms caused by individuals, as well as organisations. My PhD is looking at accountability in light of the Hillsborough disaster, whereby in one chapter I consider the social harms caused by David Duckenfield both as an individual and as a member of SYP.

I’m merely opening up for discussion a new lens through which to view the JB case. To consider the social harms that may have been caused to numerous individuals or groups of individuals, following the 5 deaths. This then leads on to whether these were one off events that dissipated with time, whether they were cumulative or whether they are still ongoing.
« Last Edit: August 25, 2020, 06:57:PM by petey »

guest7363

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Re: How Social Harm and Zemiology relate to the JB case
« Reply #27 on: August 25, 2020, 07:34:PM »
I just meant if you had access to library materials it was a good starting point as is anything from Hillyard, Tombs, Pemberton on google scholar.

The very definition of Zemiology has been contested in legal parlance and as yet no definitive definition has been found. It comes from the Greek word Zemia, although translating this into English has caused much debate from both an academic and a criminological perspective. The very nature of the definition is discussed at length in Hillyard and Tombs seminal 2004 work and by Pemberton in his later 2015 Harmful Societies book.

Social Harm and Zemiology (the study of social harms) can be used to assess harms caused by individuals, as well as organisations. My PhD is looking at accountability in light of the Hillsborough disaster, whereby in one chapter I consider the social harms caused by David Duckenfield both as an individual and as a member of SYP.

I’m merely opening up for discussion a new lens through which to view the JB case. To consider the social harms that may have been caused to numerous individuals or groups of individuals, following the 5 deaths. This then leads on to whether these were one off events that dissipated with time, whether they were cumulative or whether they are still ongoing.
I think this just about sums where the family must be at Pete’y, I suppose after the last ruling they may be even more confident?  It was interesting to see that statement.

It is very interesting to note that the JB case has now been removed from the seminar syllabus as a potential miscarriage of justice.