Suggested reasons the straight forward Bamber scenario does not work:

[lookout]

RWB went into the fields looking for cycle tracks but none were found.

[guest29835]

RWB went into the fields looking for cycle tracks but none were found.

We must take into account that Jeremy was training for the Tour de Yorkshire, and as an elite cross-country cyclist, he would have stuck to the paths.  It was all explained to Stan over breakfast the morning after.

[JackieD]

The only difficulties was if Julie turned on him & remembered the bike. And AE turned on him after seeing the bike at his cottage. He didn't beleive these would happen.

On the night he didn't want to waste time & energy getting there & back. He was looking for 'the easy way', which is the main reason he committed the massacre.

FFS

[guest29835]

FFS

My own theory is that Jeremy trained on his exercise bike at Bourtree Cottage.  He needed to get himself into shape, Jackie. 

The man was driven and obsessed by the Tour de France and his chance at the Tour de Yorkshire, and eventually this ill-starred ambition and greed - a tragic warping of the more traditional values of amateurism and sportmanship instilled at Gresham - overtook his better judgement and he started taking steroids to enhance his performance.  Over time, the training costs mounted - elite cycle instructors don't come cheap, and there's tour fees to think about - so he had to think of a plan to get his hands on some big money.

Now, it was well known around Goldhanger that after long days in the fields, Jeremy trained by night and that's why he borrowed June's bike, to take things a step further as demanded by his French instructor, Jean-Pierre, who told him that his exercise bike didn't cut it anymore.

This meant Jeremy had the perfect excuse if he was caught.  As it happened, he was.  A secret memo from the COLP investigation shows that on the very morning of the murders, Stan and Taff grilled Jeremy over bacon and sausages and asked him why he had been seen out in the dark riding June's bike along local footpaths at around the time of the murders.  Jeremy patiently explained that he was an elite cyclist and this sort of arduous training was essential for his proposed cycling career, an endeavour that had the full knowledge and approval of Nevill.

Taff was certainly satisfied with this explanation, and Stan was too.  The problem for Stan was the bacon.  Stan had been studying sports science in his spare time and had read the considered works of some of the elite Continental sports nutritionalists, and he just couldn't reconcile why Jeremy, an elite cross-country cyclist, would want to risk his waistline in that way.  The suspicion in Stan grew, and although he accepted Jeremy's reason for being out in the dark on his bike, the bacon really was a step too far.

Unfortunately, Stan stepped over the line when he changed his pocketbook to say that Jeremy had enjoyed his bacon with ketchup rather than HP sauce.

Anyway, yellow jersey to Adam.

[Adam]

My own theory is that Jeremy trained on his exercise bike at Bourtree Cottage.  He needed to get himself into shape, Jackie. 

The man was driven and obsessed by the Tour de France and his chance at the Tour de Yorkshire, and eventually this ill-starred ambition and greed - a tragic warping of the more traditional values of amateurism and sportmanship instilled at Gresham - overtook his better judgement and he started taking steroids to enhance his performance.  Over time, the training costs mounted - elite cycle instructors don't come cheap, and there's tour fees to think about - so he had to think of a plan to get his hands on some big money.

Now, it was well known around Goldhanger that after long days in the fields, Jeremy trained by night and that's why he borrowed June's bike, to take things a step further as demanded by his French instructor, Jean-Pierre, who told him that his exercise bike didn't cut it anymore.

This meant Jeremy had the perfect excuse if he was caught.  As it happened, he was.  A secret memo from the COLP investigation shows that on the very morning of the murders, Stan and Taff grilled Jeremy over bacon and sausages and asked him why he had been seen out in the dark riding June's bike along local footpaths at around the time of the murders.  Jeremy patiently explained that he was an elite cyclist and this sort of arduous training was essential for his proposed cycling career, an endeavour that had the full knowledge and approval of Nevill.

Taff was certainly satisfied with this explanation, and Stan was too.  The problem for Stan was the bacon.  Stan had been studying sports science in his spare time and had read the considered works of some of the elite Continental sports nutritionalists, and he just couldn't reconcile why Jeremy, an elite cross-country cyclist, would want to risk his waistline in that way.  The suspicion in Stan grew, and although he accepted Jeremy's reason for being out in the dark on his bike, the bacon really was a step too far.

Unfortunately, Stan stepped over the line when he changed his pocketbook to say that Jeremy had enjoyed his bacon with ketchup rather than HP sauce.

Anyway, yellow jersey to Adam.

A waste of a long post.

Anyway you have come up with new serious theories.

He brought the bike over to scout possible walking/running routes. He would not risk cycling in case he got a puncture or broken chain.

Both possible.

[guest29835]

A waste of a long post.

Anyway you have come up with new serious theories.

He brought the bike over to scout possible walking/running routes. He would not risk cycling in case he got a puncture or broken chain.

Both possible.

I just like to insert some humour into things, just the way I am.

On a serious note, the more I think about it, the more I like the idea that he used the bike for scouting.  In the process, he probably realised - if he'd not already - that using the bike on the night would be impracticable.

An interesting exercise would be for one of us to plan and go to and from the locations on foot, timing it in the process, to evaluate how realistic 'on foot' would be given the time constraints he was under.

[JackieD]

My own theory is that Jeremy trained on his exercise bike at Bourtree Cottage.  He needed to get himself into shape, Jackie. 

The man was driven and obsessed by the Tour de France and his chance at the Tour de Yorkshire, and eventually this ill-starred ambition and greed - a tragic warping of the more traditional values of amateurism and sportmanship instilled at Gresham - overtook his better judgement and he started taking steroids to enhance his performance.  Over time, the training costs mounted - elite cycle instructors don't come cheap, and there's tour fees to think about - so he had to think of a plan to get his hands on some big money.

Now, it was well known around Goldhanger that after long days in the fields, Jeremy trained by night and that's why he borrowed June's bike, to take things a step further as demanded by his French instructor, Jean-Pierre, who told him that his exercise bike didn't cut it anymore.

This meant Jeremy had the perfect excuse if he was caught.  As it happened, he was.  A secret memo from the COLP investigation shows that on the very morning of the murders, Stan and Taff grilled Jeremy over bacon and sausages and asked him why he had been seen out in the dark riding June's bike along local footpaths at around the time of the murders.  Jeremy patiently explained that he was an elite cyclist and this sort of arduous training was essential for his proposed cycling career, an endeavour that had the full knowledge and approval of Nevill.

Taff was certainly satisfied with this explanation, and Stan was too.  The problem for Stan was the bacon.  Stan had been studying sports science in his spare time and had read the considered works of some of the elite Continental sports nutritionalists, and he just couldn't reconcile why Jeremy, an elite cross-country cyclist, would want to risk his waistline in that way.  The suspicion in Stan grew, and although he accepted Jeremy's reason for being out in the dark on his bike, the bacon really was a step too far.

Unfortunately, Stan stepped over the line when he changed his pocketbook to say that Jeremy had enjoyed his bacon with ketchup rather than HP sauce.

Anyway, yellow jersey to Adam.

I’ve pre ordered the book before Netflix get hold of it

[Steve_uk]

Another one for the archives.  Thanks Special Steve.

I've looked again at her statement and the part about the bike.  Then she is lying or (if she is telling the truth) she has misconstrued him, because he wouldn't use a bike for a trial run.  He would go on foot.  He would quickly realise that, just thinking about it for five seconds.  He would use the bike to scout routes, if at all.

I'm not the idiot.  You are.   The fact she mentions the bike in that way just increases my suspicion.  It's not realistic.  It sounds like the bike is being shoehorned into this, by Julie and/or the police - for reasons I explore on another thread.  It also conflicts with her evidence that Matthew Macdonald did this.  Maybe Jeremy originally planned this himself but if so, why does he then tell her he used a hitman? That doesn't make sense.  He'd already, according to Julie, gone on and on about how he was planning to kill his family, so why not just tell her he'd done it, if indeed he is guilty?

Apart from all that, what she says in that statement doesn't change my belief that if he did this, he must have gone on foot.

For goodness' sake. Jeremy is speculating about how he is going to commit mass murder. At this point it's all in his head, he's thinking out loud and Julie is the confidante. Why does he tell Julie the most intimate part of his thoughts? Because he's been adopted at birth, deprived of the maternal bond, then has June to contend with as a small child, where however much she wishes to express love she is quite incapable, for her own mental health reasons. There's also very little love shown by Nevill, who to outward appearances is a stuffed shirt and retreats into himself after the death of his sisters. We then have Jeremy packed off to Gresham's for eight years where he struggles both personally and academically to fit in. He rebels with Suzette as soon as he is able to lead a semi-autonomous life, but that again is broken up by his parents through threat of disinheritance. It may well be that Nevill and June brought the inheritance motive to the fore in their son's mind and the musings on murder started from there.

We then have the relationship with Julie, which lasted almost two years. She is the first truly academic female in his life who actually listens to him, who lets him talk. She endures the murder conversations amongst the social trivia because she has come under his spell, though does attempt to discourage such wicked talk. She herself is a busy, professional young woman, though spends what little free time she has in Jeremy's company, being his doormat. Jeremy thinks he can rely on her implicitly: in his words "I have entrusted my life in your hands.."

Once the deed is done (to quote Macbeth) he sees that Julie is unsettled, she is not the same doting individual she was, regarding Jeremy as intrinsically evil, ruthless in sweeping away five lives. She probes him for an explanation and Jeremy attempts to distance himself somewhat from the crime, hoping that the explanation on the hitman will satisfy her. It does not.

[guest29835]

For goodness' sake. Jeremy is speculating about how he is going to commit mass murder. At this point it's all in his head, he's thinking out loud and Julie is the confidante. Why does he tell Julie the most intimate part of his thoughts? Because he's been adopted at birth, deprived of the maternal bond, then has June to contend with as a small child, where however much she wishes to express love she is quite incapable, for her own mental health reasons. There's also very little love shown by Nevill, who to outward appearances is a stuffed shirt and retreats into himself after the death of his sisters. We then have Jeremy packed off to Gresham's for eight years where he struggles both personally and academically to fit in. He rebels with Suzette as soon as he is able to lead a semi-autonomous life, but that again is broken up by his parents through threat of disinheritance. It may well be that Nevill and June brought the inheritance motive to the fore in their son's mind and the musings on murder started from there.

We then have the relationship with Julie, which lasted almost two years. She is the first truly academic female in his life who actually listens to him, who lets him talk. She endures the murder conversations amongst the social trivia because she has come under his spell, though does attempt to discourage such wicked talk. She herself is a busy, professional young woman, though spends what little free time she has in Jeremy's company, being his doormat. Jeremy thinks he can rely on her implicitly: in his words "I have entrusted my life in your hands.."

Once the deed is done (to quote Macbeth) he sees that Julie is unsettled, she is not the same doting individual she was, regarding Jeremy as intrinsically evil, ruthless in sweeping away five lives. She probes him for an explanation and Jeremy attempts to distance himself somewhat from the crime, hoping that the explanation on the hitman will satisfy her. It does not.

Thanks Mrs Smerchanski.  I'm pleased you've made a successful life for yourself in Canada, but tell me, how do you find the time to post so much on this Forum?

[David1819]

Thanks Mrs Smerchanski.  I'm pleased you've made a successful life for yourself in Canada, but tell me, how do you find the time to post so much on this Forum?

Stephanie Smerchanski 

[Steve_uk]

Thanks Mrs Smerchanski.  I'm pleased you've made a successful life for yourself in Canada, but tell me, how do you find the time to post so much on this Forum?

It's usually (and with tragic irony) my most fecund period, to which many members here will readily attest. Whilst we're about it you might wish to call attack dog David off and feed him some more of that brain candy he needs for low-level function.

[Steve_uk]

Thanks Mrs Smerchanski.  I'm pleased you've made a successful life for yourself in Canada, but tell me, how do you find the time to post so much on this Forum?

You'd be the first one to complain had she ended up a single mother on a Braintree council estate.

[JackieD]

For goodness' sake. Jeremy is speculating about how he is going to commit mass murder. At this point it's all in his head, he's thinking out loud and Julie is the confidante. Why does he tell Julie the most intimate part of his thoughts? Because he's been adopted at birth, deprived of the maternal bond, then has June to contend with as a small child, where however much she wishes to express love she is quite incapable, for her own mental health reasons. There's also very little love shown by Nevill, who to outward appearances is a stuffed shirt and retreats into himself after the death of his sisters. We then have Jeremy packed off to Gresham's for eight years where he struggles both personally and academically to fit in. He rebels with Suzette as soon as he is able to lead a semi-autonomous life, but that again is broken up by his parents through threat of disinheritance. It may well be that Nevill and June brought the inheritance motive to the fore in their son's mind and the musings on murder started from there.

We then have the relationship with Julie, which lasted almost two years. She is the first truly academic female in his life who actually listens to him, who lets him talk. She endures the murder conversations amongst the social trivia because she has come under his spell, though does attempt to discourage such wicked talk. She herself is a busy, professional young woman, though spends what little free time she has in Jeremy's company, being his doormat. Jeremy thinks he can rely on her implicitly: in his words "I have entrusted my life in your hands.."

Once the deed is done (to quote Macbeth) he sees that Julie is unsettled, she is not the same doting individual she was, regarding Jeremy as intrinsically evil, ruthless in sweeping away five lives. She probes him for an explanation and Jeremy attempts to distance himself somewhat from the crime, hoping that the explanation on the hitman will satisfy her. It does not.

You really are one sick puppy, does anyone read this shite

[Steve_uk]

You really are one sick puppy, does anyone read this shite

Yes so many..http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,3851.0.html

[guest29835]

Yes so many..http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,3851.0.html

Thanks Jacob.

Maybe we should assign Dickens' characters to forum members?  I suspect that Steve's got Bamber already penciled in for the role of Jacob Marley?