Author Topic: Whatever happened to Ben Needham?  (Read 3439 times)

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Offline Steve_uk

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Whatever happened to Ben Needham?
« on: June 30, 2020, 07:26:PM »
This 19-month-old toddler from Sheffield disappeared from the Dodecanese island of Kos on 24 July 1991. Theories range from abduction by gypsies, people in a hire car, the uncle's involvement or a juggernaut driver accident. A body has never been found. https://youtu.be/32xqT0mlXdo

Offline Steve_uk

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Re: Whatever happened to Ben Needham?
« Reply #1 on: July 09, 2020, 03:36:PM »
One possible explanation for Ben's disappearance offered four years ago: https://youtu.be/sruI4VT3umY

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Re: Whatever happened to Ben Needham?
« Reply #2 on: July 16, 2020, 03:42:AM »
Interestingly, possibly without meaning to, the South Yorkshire Police investigation ended up pointing the finger at the Needhams themselves.  If you listen carefully to the SIO's statement, that's what he says.  I don't know if that was intentional.

It's a very interesting case, much more so than the McCann affair.  The McCanns seem bland to me and without knowing too much about their case, abduction seems plausible on the face of it.  The Needhams are much more interesting.  My suspicion (I could be wrong) is that the boy was not abducted and the family, or a member of the family, were involved in some sort of tragic accident.

As with the Falconio case, it's not conclusively clear that Ben is dead, but one has to suspect as much and I pick up from the family's media statements that they concede this probability, so....whatever actually happened, R.I.P. Ben Needham, and my sympathies to his family.  Even if they really were involved in some way, it must have been an accident and I can't imagine what they've been through.

Offline Steve_uk

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Re: Whatever happened to Ben Needham?
« Reply #3 on: July 16, 2020, 06:26:AM »
The bottom line is you don't let young children out of your sight in paedophiles' paradise Praia da Luz or let them roam towards a mechanical digger operational 100 yards from where your toddler is playing.

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Re: Whatever happened to Ben Needham?
« Reply #4 on: July 16, 2020, 08:05:AM »
I don't believe Ben Needham was anywhere near a mechanical digger.  I'm sure the digger was there on that day, but I think the rest of it is invented.

As far as I can tell, the McCanns did nothing wrong.  I think the allegation of neglect is overblown.  Plenty of normal people would have acted much the same on holiday.

I take the view that the Needhams and the McCanns have been unlucky - but for different reasons in each case.

Offline Steve_uk

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Re: Whatever happened to Ben Needham?
« Reply #5 on: July 16, 2020, 06:27:PM »
I don't believe Ben Needham was anywhere near a mechanical digger.  I'm sure the digger was there on that day, but I think the rest of it is invented.

As far as I can tell, the McCanns did nothing wrong.  I think the allegation of neglect is overblown.  Plenty of normal people would have acted much the same on holiday.

I take the view that the Needhams and the McCanns have been unlucky - but for different reasons in each case.
No it's because people are off guard whilst relaxing on holiday and often leave their brains at the airport terminal.

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Re: Whatever happened to Ben Needham?
« Reply #6 on: July 23, 2020, 12:59:PM »
No it's because people are off guard whilst relaxing on holiday and often leave their brains at the airport terminal.

That reminds me, we must remember to take an armed guard with us when we next go on holiday.

Offline Steve_uk

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Re: Whatever happened to Ben Needham?
« Reply #7 on: July 23, 2020, 09:14:PM »
That reminds me, we must remember to take an armed guard with us when we next go on holiday.
The McCann's could have lost all three children. Ben Needham was a one-year-old left unsupervised. Form your own opinion.

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Re: Whatever happened to Ben Needham?
« Reply #8 on: July 23, 2020, 09:36:PM »
The McCann's could have lost all three children. Ben Needham was a one-year-old left unsupervised. Form your own opinion.

My opinions, Steve, are derived from facts, not from judging people, moral grandstanding and prideful arrogant opinionation.

Offline Steve_uk

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Re: Whatever happened to Ben Needham?
« Reply #9 on: July 23, 2020, 09:43:PM »
My opinions, Steve, are derived from facts, not from judging people, moral grandstanding and prideful arrogant opinionation.
Sometimes the substance is not only hard to fathom but downright incorrect. The fact is that three children were left unsupervised in a holiday apartment whilst their parents wined and dined. The fact is that a one-year-old boy was left unsupervised in an area with a mechanical digger one hundred yards away.
« Last Edit: July 23, 2020, 10:11:PM by Steve_uk »

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Re: Whatever happened to Ben Needham?
« Reply #10 on: July 24, 2020, 12:44:AM »
Sometimes the substance is not only hard to fathom but downright incorrect. The fact is that three children were left unsupervised in a holiday apartment whilst their parents wined and dined. The fact is that a one-year-old boy was left unsupervised in an area with a mechanical digger one hundred yards away.

I think any discussion with you is like a Möbius strip of endless non-points.  For you, forums are a platform to cast aspersions on anybody in sight when you put your periscope up and espy a moral deviant in need of correction.

How terrible of the McCanns to wine and dine on holiday!  They may have had sex too.  It's disgusting I tell you!

They left the children in an apartment within the same holiday complex, very nearby.  They did this because they were on holiday and like parents of young children, they wanted to enjoy themselves in the evenings after a day looking after the kids.  That's what lots of normal people do.  I personally wouldn't have done the same, but that's just me; I expect lots of perfectly normal people do like the McCanns did, even today, without any problems.  Indeed, the McCanns were part of a group of respectable people who did exactly this. 

Now, I realise that you and the other Roundheads are strongly disapproving of such behaviour.  If it's any help to you and your Cromwellian friends, I think the McCanns admit themselves that, with the benefit of hindsight, it was a little foolish, but they also say they did periodically check on the children.  It doesn't, for me, amount to neglect.  I also maintain that the abduction scenario is plausible and it seems to me they've just been unlucky - tragically so.

Beyond that, I don't have much interest in the case because they strike me as a fairly bland couple and a bit boring.  I think if I had to listen to Gerry McCann for more than 30 seconds, I'd probably die of boredom, or go to sleep.

I think one reason the case excites so much feeling is because of a latent resentment towards an aspirational couple from a working class background who became doctors and live in a nice house in Leicestershire.  Personally I'm pleased for them and I would like to thank them for their service to the NHS.  Other people want to brand them as murderers or similar - on the basis of little or no evidence, it seems to me.  It's mostly just spite and meanness.  Believe it or not, Steve - you may want to sit down before you read this - judging people is not the same as having evidence.  I know that will come as a shock, as it was a shock to Abigail and Reverend Parris, but you may have to just accept that your views, opinions and beliefs are not necessarily facts, and certainly not evidence.

The former solicitor, Tony Bennett, has done a lot of research on the case.  Now, personally I see nothing wrong with this, but there is one observation I would make about him.  I think physiognomy can sometimes give away clues about a person.  This makes sense for all sorts of empirical and scientific reasons, which I won't labour here. 

In the case of Mr Bennett, and without in any way wishing to be offensive towards him, he does look a lot like my idea of an early modern Puritan.  All that's missing is the broad-brimmed hat, a King James Bible and a wooden cabin somewhere in New England and we could cast him in The Crucible.  He'd be perfect!

I wonder if Mr Bennett is a little too over-strenuous in his judgementalism about other people and I also wonder why this might be?  I imply nothing, though.

As for the Needhams, now that's an interesting case.  It's interesting partly because I suspect the Needhams, or one of the Needhams, is/are responsible for Ben Needham's disappearance and I suspect, tragically, he died in or near the house.

Of course, I could be completely wrong.  However, my view does seem to have official support.  I pointed out to you earlier, and you clearly weren't paying attention (which is no surprise) that even the head of the South Yorkshire Police investigation implied this.  Whether that was a Freudian slip or he couldn't resist giving the game away, I'm not sure, but I think the answer to the mystery is known by the Needhams themselves - sadly.

You don't pay attention to evidence, Steve.  If you did, you would know that the suspicion about the mechanical digger is completely without any basis.

However, unlike Mr Bennett, I'm not putting my Puritan hat on.  It's a terrible tragedy, and if my suspicions are correct, then I think it was an accident, and my sympathies are with the family.

Offline Steve_uk

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Re: Whatever happened to Ben Needham?
« Reply #11 on: July 24, 2020, 05:35:AM »
I think any discussion with you is like a Möbius strip of endless non-points. For you, forums are a platform to cast aspersions on anybody in sight when you put your periscope up and espy a moral deviant in need of correction.

How terrible of the McCanns to wine and dine on holiday!  They may have had sex too.  It's disgusting I tell you!

They left the children in an apartment within the same holiday complex, very nearby.  They did this because they were on holiday and like parents of young children, they wanted to enjoy themselves in the evenings after a day looking after the kids.  That's what lots of normal people do.  I personally wouldn't have done the same, but that's just me; I expect lots of perfectly normal people do like the McCanns did, even today, without any problems.  Indeed, the McCanns were part of a group of respectable people who did exactly this. 

Now, I realise that you and the other Roundheads are strongly disapproving of such behaviour.  If it's any help to you and your Cromwellian friends, I think the McCanns admit themselves that, with the benefit of hindsight, it was a little foolish, but they also say they did periodically check on the children.  It doesn't, for me, amount to neglect.  I also maintain that the abduction scenario is plausible and it seems to me they've just been unlucky - tragically so.

Beyond that, I don't have much interest in the case because they strike me as a fairly bland couple and a bit boring.  I think if I had to listen to Gerry McCann for more than 30 seconds, I'd probably die of boredom, or go to sleep.

I think one reason the case excites so much feeling is because of a latent resentment towards an aspirational couple from a working class background who became doctors and live in a nice house in Leicestershire.  Personally I'm pleased for them and I would like to thank them for their service to the NHS.  Other people want to brand them as murderers or similar - on the basis of little or no evidence, it seems to me.  It's mostly just spite and meanness.  Believe it or not, Steve - you may want to sit down before you read this - judging people is not the same as having evidence.  I know that will come as a shock, as it was a shock to Abigail and Reverend Parris, but you may have to just accept that your views, opinions and beliefs are not necessarily facts, and certainly not evidence.

The former solicitor, Tony Bennett, has done a lot of research on the case.  Now, personally I see nothing wrong with this, but there is one observation I would make about him.  I think physiognomy can sometimes give away clues about a person.  This makes sense for all sorts of empirical and scientific reasons, which I won't labour here. 

In the case of Mr Bennett, and without in any way wishing to be offensive towards him, he does look a lot like my idea of an early modern Puritan.  All that's missing is the broad-brimmed hat, a King James Bible and a wooden cabin somewhere in New England and we could cast him in The Crucible.  He'd be perfect!

I wonder if Mr Bennett is a little too over-strenuous in his judgementalism about other people and I also wonder why this might be?  I imply nothing, though.

As for the Needhams, now that's an interesting case.  It's interesting partly because I suspect the Needhams, or one of the Needhams, is/are responsible for Ben Needham's disappearance and I suspect, tragically, he died in or near the house.

Of course, I could be completely wrong.  However, my view does seem to have official support.  I pointed out to you earlier, and you clearly weren't paying attention (which is no surprise) that even the head of the South Yorkshire Police investigation implied this.  Whether that was a Freudian slip or he couldn't resist giving the game away, I'm not sure, but I think the answer to the mystery is known by the Needhams themselves - sadly.

You don't pay attention to evidence, Steve.  If you did, you would know that the suspicion about the mechanical digger is completely without any basis.

However, unlike Mr Bennett, I'm not putting my Puritan hat on.  It's a terrible tragedy, and if my suspicions are correct, then I think it was an accident, and my sympathies are with the family.
As I say, we have free speech here and it's up to the Moderators to decide on its limits. You called me a creep a few days ago and reiterated that view when I apologized. I will never apologize to you again.

I'm not criticizing the McCanns for wanting a week's holiday in the sun. Neither am I criticizing them for having sex (by the way you're a typical sex-obsessed individual, a trait you share with Jeremy Bamber). What I am criticizing them for is leaving their three children unattended and out of sight when the complex offered a babysitting service and money would have been no issue for them. Portugal is no longer the safe haven it used to be. Europe has open borders with criminals on the move. All three of their children could have had their throats cut by an intruder.

As for the Needhams, it seems uncle Stephen did give his nephew rides on a motorcycle as a regular occurrence. Did Ben meet with an accident whilst on such a trip? Impossible to know for sure. But the anguish of the grandparents and the mother is genuine enough for me to believe they played no part in his disappearance, though again as with the McCanns they were guilty of neglect. The mechanical digger theory cannot be ruled out.

« Last Edit: July 24, 2020, 05:35:AM by Steve_uk »

guest29835

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Re: Whatever happened to Ben Needham?
« Reply #12 on: July 24, 2020, 06:39:AM »
As I say, we have free speech here and it's up to the Moderators to decide on its limits. You called me a creep a few days ago and reiterated that view when I apologized. I will never apologize to you again.


I think you are a mental case.

I don't remember the apology.  What I will say is that you completely ignore the fact that you started the trouble between us. 

Although I think you are a lunatic, I also think you are here with a design and purpose and I would never accept an apology from you.

As for what the moderators think, without wishing to seem critical, I think the moderators have to accept a large slice of responsibility for this ugly situation.  They are supposed to be encouraging critical discussion of the case and they should have reigned you in.

I am close to ceasing posting altogether.

Regarding free speech, there is no such thing, anywhere.  The fact you think there is indicates you have a second-class mind, despite having letters after your name.  Discussion, if it is to be useful and worthwhile, has to take place within parameters.  Freedom is cultural.  It depends on an agreement about what 'discussion' and 'debate' is.  This dispute between you and I is a case in point.

You think discussion and debate involves picking fights with people, bravely hiding behind your computer.  That's not what I regard as discussion and debate of a matter such as this.  Thus, you can bleat on about free speech all you like, it's of absolutely no utility whatsoever.  To me, it's like seeing a sheep ba-ba-baaa'ing and having it called free speech.

guest29835

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guest29835

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Re: Whatever happened to Ben Needham?
« Reply #14 on: July 25, 2020, 08:44:AM »
I'm not criticizing the McCanns for wanting a week's holiday in the sun. Neither am I criticizing them for having sex (by the way you're a typical sex-obsessed individual, a trait you share with Jeremy Bamber).

Goodness me, Steve, you're on the button here.  You've got me right again.  This is the second time that you've said something correct.  Only twice out of 12,000 posts, but still, let's give credit where it's due.

In all seriousness, how can you go round this Forum nannying and lecturing to people when you have such a nasty manner about you?  Bear in mind that you kicked off the conflagration between us.  I didn't provoke you.  You started it. 

Don't you ever consider your own behaviour?  Have you any morals or sense of humility at all?

What I am criticizing them for is leaving their three children unattended and out of sight when the complex offered a babysitting service and money would have been no issue for them. Portugal is no longer the safe haven it used to be. Europe has open borders with criminals on the move. All three of their children could have had their throats cut by an intruder.

This is a partial representation of the truth, which is no surprise since it comes from Steve. 

I admit I've never delved deeply into the case and I have no intention of doing so - a necessary caveat - but as you always do Steve, you only provide us with half the story and it's a very slanted and judgemental twisting of half the story, in service of your feelings rather than any regard for truth.

To you facts are opinions and opinions are facts.

We should probably invent a Newspeak word to cover your special approach to commentary:

How about 'Opinifact'?

As for the Needhams, it seems uncle Stephen did give his nephew rides on a motorcycle as a regular occurrence. Did Ben meet with an accident whilst on such a trip? Impossible to know for sure. But the anguish of the grandparents and the mother is genuine enough for me to believe they played no part in his disappearance, though again as with the McCanns they were guilty of neglect. The mechanical digger theory cannot be ruled out.

It was claimed by the Needhams that Uncle Stephen never gave his nephew rides on the motorcycle, then it turned out that he did.  Mind you, Uncle Stephen was not the one who made the untrue claim and it could just be a mistake or misunderstanding.  Let's be generous and say it was.  May as well, as it's not really probative anyway.

I agree with you, actually, that the anguish of the grandparents and the mother seems genuine.  Even if they had something to do with covering it up, I'd feel sorry for them and I wouldn't want them to be punished for it.

In any event, if my suspicions are correct (I accept I may be wrong), it was an accident.

I disagree with you when you claim it's impossible to know.  It is potentially provable, and I suspect South Yorkshire Police realised where the evidence was pointing and their expedition to that Greek island became 'political' more than an investigative.  I don't blame them, to that extent.  What are they supposed to do? 

Pointing the finger at the family officially would be awful, even if it reflects the evidence, yet at the same time they did point the finger at an obscure foreigner, who has become the scapegoat - and that's abominable.

The truth is that there is no evidence at all that the mechanical digger was involved - and I do mean ZERO evidence - and I think your understanding of the case shows a lapse of common-sense.  Ben was 21 months old.  Yes, it wasn't wise to leave him on his own, but at the same time, it's rather unlikely that he would have ventured over to the digger.  Let's say I'm wrong and he did: then why wasn't the body found?  The only explanation is that the digger driver concealed the body.  If so, why did he take Ben's clothes off the line nearby as well?  The evidence doesn't support it.