Author Topic: Det. Supt. 'Mick' Ainsley - oversight of corrupt practices  (Read 33643 times)

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Offline Roch

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Re: Det. Supt. 'Mick' Ainsley - oversight of corrupt practices
« Reply #105 on: June 04, 2021, 01:38:PM »
I fully understand the arguments QC makes. However I believe there is another option he has not set out.

There is a possibility that during the course of an incident the police make a serious maybe unforgivable mistake. They seek to conceal this error and close down the case to their satisfaction.

Later other actors who have 'issues' with this outcome deduce or are told by someone (whistle blower) what took place in fact.

They then pressurise the police to reinvestigate the crime who then pursue an innocent individual who has a very close connection to the crime. They frame a  convenient 'patsy' in order that their initial mistake and cover up remains hidden.

I don't think the relatives were aware he was innocent. This means, in my mind, they can't have been told what took place. However, I suspect they were told of anomalies that in themselves would be serious enough for EP to think a failed prosecution of Bamber would be the lesser of two evils and could potentially get the relatives off their back. The problem is that Ainsley and Stan Jones went about their task with absolute relish and somehow pulled off a successful prosecution. In the process, they created a nightmare case for EP that just keeps coming back again and again. It was a stupid decision.
« Last Edit: June 04, 2021, 01:43:PM by Roch »

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Re: Det. Supt. 'Mick' Ainsley - oversight of corrupt practices
« Reply #106 on: June 04, 2021, 01:57:PM »
I fully understand the arguments QC makes. However I believe there is another option he has not set out.

There is a possibility that during the course of an incident the police make a serious maybe unforgivable mistake. They seek to conceal this error and close down the case to their satisfaction.

Later other actors who have 'issues' with this outcome deduce or are told by someone (whistle blower) what took place in fact.

They then pressurise the police to reinvestigate the crime who then pursue an innocent individual who has a very close connection to the crime. They frame a  convenient 'patsy' in order that their initial mistake and cover up remains hidden.

In the way you've described it, that is option (i) - which is framing an innocent man.  You're just proposing a motive for it, which is that they've messed something up and don't want anybody to find out, so they give in to blackmail from third parties in contact with a covert whistle blower.  In law, what you are describing would be a scheme of blackmail under section 21 of the Theft Act, a very serious offence.  That's in addition to perverting the course of justice and perjury.  How many people were involved in this and what did each party know and not know?  Did the core conspirators rely on a belief that the case against Jeremy was weak and he would be acquitted?  Why didn't the police just arrest the blackmailers and cover it all up?

The basic problem with that you propose is parsimony: it's easier for the police to cover up and deny the mistake itself than to give in to blackmail from third parties and concoct the elaborate framing of a probable innocent man.  One is simple, low risk and morally-defensible even if dubious, the other is complex, risky and morally-outrageous, in fact evil.  Most people would believe the police and the authorities would tend to back up the police - especially back in the 1980s, when external oversight of investigations was rare. 

Essex Police would just arrest the blackmailers and say they were either lying about the mistake or exaggerating it, and most people - including the courts - would accept this.  If Essex Police shot Sheila, they would just admit it, discipline the officers involved, arrest and charge the blackmailers, hold an inquiry, apologise, and move on.

In other words, I find the motive unconvincing, not because what you describe is unlikely - quite the contrary, I imagine convert whistleblowing about serious mistakes is commonplace - rather because it is unlikely this would form a motive for police officers to frame somebody who they know or believe is innocent.

Offline Bubo bubo

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Re: Det. Supt. 'Mick' Ainsley - oversight of corrupt practices
« Reply #107 on: June 04, 2021, 02:43:PM »
I share Roch's thoughts but I did not specify that the error was shooting Sheila. For example what if they shot June mistaking her for Sheila. Not beyond the realms of possibility. That would put a completely different complexion on the incident.

In this case they would have denied the family any possibility of the inheritance at some future point.

Similarly if they had ignored a call from Neville at an earlier time in the evening for some reason. Potentially many other deaths could be laid at their door.

They did not have to resort to blackmail. They could have asked for another force to review the case or a public enquiry into the mishandling of the case. There is even the possibility that some officers were offered some form of inducement for a conviction which would have been very possible given the sums involved. Yes that is a bribe.
 

Offline David1819

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Re: Det. Supt. 'Mick' Ainsley - oversight of corrupt practices
« Reply #108 on: June 04, 2021, 03:11:PM »
I share Roch's thoughts but I did not specify that the error was shooting Sheila. For example what if they shot June mistaking her for Sheila. Not beyond the realms of possibility. That would put a completely different complexion on the incident.


June was shot five times while in bed, four of those shot missed vital organs. This is not the act of a skilled marksmen.

Offline David1819

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Re: Det. Supt. 'Mick' Ainsley - oversight of corrupt practices
« Reply #109 on: June 04, 2021, 03:12:PM »
The problem is that Ainsley and Stan Jones went about their task with absolute relish and somehow pulled off a successful prosecution.

What evidence do you have to support this?

Offline JackieD

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Re: Det. Supt. 'Mick' Ainsley - oversight of corrupt practices
« Reply #110 on: June 04, 2021, 03:17:PM »
So if evidence is taken home by a high ranking police officer to be destroyed what category would that come under?
Why would a high ranking police officer take something home to destroy it

At the very least it is perverting the course of justice

Considering the consequences should the person in question get a prison sentence at the high end of the tariff

If CAL knew this she could also be guilty of the above
Julie Mugford the main prosecution witness was guilty of numerous crimes, 13 separate cheque frauds, robbery, and drug dealing and also making a deal with a national newspaper before trial that if she could convince a jury her ex boyfriend was guilty of five murders she would receive £25,000

Offline Bubo bubo

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Re: Det. Supt. 'Mick' Ainsley - oversight of corrupt practices
« Reply #111 on: June 04, 2021, 03:24:PM »

June was shot five times while in bed, four of those shot missed vital organs. This is not the act of a skilled marksmen.
[/quote]]
June was shot five times while in bed, four of those shot missed vital organs. This is not the act of a skilled marksmen.
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I agree that most of the shots to June were not those of a marksman. However the shot between the eyes most definitely is.

The only evidence that June was shot in bed are the shell casings. The other visible or absence of this are not supported by the blood evidence. None of the body wounds would account for the dripping and patches of blood on the pillow.

Offline David1819

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Re: Det. Supt. 'Mick' Ainsley - oversight of corrupt practices
« Reply #112 on: June 04, 2021, 03:28:PM »


I agree that most of the shots to June were not those of a marksman. However the shot between the eyes most definitely is.

The only evidence that June was shot in bed are the shell casings. The other visible or absence of this are not supported by the blood evidence. None of the body wounds would account for the dripping and patches of blood on the pillow.

Junes side of the bed is covered in blood. Plus they recovered a bullet that went into her pillow.


« Last Edit: June 04, 2021, 03:29:PM by David1819 »

Offline lookout

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Re: Det. Supt. 'Mick' Ainsley - oversight of corrupt practices
« Reply #113 on: June 04, 2021, 03:31:PM »
The shot between the eyes would have been after the person had died---where you wouldn't need to have been a marksman. One of the twins had also been shot between the eyes too.

Offline Roch

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Re: Det. Supt. 'Mick' Ainsley - oversight of corrupt practices
« Reply #114 on: June 04, 2021, 03:45:PM »
What evidence do you have to support this?

Are you suggesting that Jones and Ainsley were reluctant prosecutors, diligently following due process, within the legal framework of the time?

Offline Bubo bubo

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Re: Det. Supt. 'Mick' Ainsley - oversight of corrupt practices
« Reply #115 on: June 04, 2021, 03:46:PM »
June was shot five times while in bed, four of those shot missed vital organs. This is not the act of a skilled marksmen.

Putting a shot in the pillow is easy to arrange. Head shots usually give rise to large pools of blood. You have not said which shot produced the pillow stains which are multiple spots and drips not a solid patch. Further all Junes wounds are to the right side of the body and from the front. The blood on the bed is predominately to what would have been her left side.

Offline David1819

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Re: Det. Supt. 'Mick' Ainsley - oversight of corrupt practices
« Reply #116 on: June 04, 2021, 04:03:PM »
Are you suggesting that Jones and Ainsley were reluctant prosecutors, diligently following due process, within the legal framework of the time?

Answer my question.

Offline David1819

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Re: Det. Supt. 'Mick' Ainsley - oversight of corrupt practices
« Reply #117 on: June 04, 2021, 04:10:PM »
Putting a shot in the pillow is easy to arrange. Head shots usually give rise to large pools of blood. You have not said which shot produced the pillow stains which are multiple spots and drips not a solid patch. Further all Junes wounds are to the right side of the body and from the front. The blood on the bed is predominately to what would have been her left side.

The blood on the pillow is probably from the shot that went through the lower right side of her neck near the collar bone.

The blood on the left side of the mattress is probably from June turning over to get out of the bed after she was shot.

Offline Roch

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Re: Det. Supt. 'Mick' Ainsley - oversight of corrupt practices
« Reply #118 on: June 04, 2021, 04:11:PM »
Answer my question.

I have. I fully support the official narrative that Mark Newby has gone with regarding Ainsley. Jones is dead, so no point in submitting complaints about him. As I have done before, I direct you to the beginning of this thread. Do you honestly believe that Newby, Joe Stone, Bill Robertson, 'David Shaw', Mike Tesko and others are all wrong about Ainsley? He's took evidence home and destroyed it ffs. And that's just the tip of the iceberg. You are on your own on Ainsley.

Offline David1819

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Re: Det. Supt. 'Mick' Ainsley - oversight of corrupt practices
« Reply #119 on: June 04, 2021, 04:25:PM »
I have. I fully support the official narrative that Mark Newby has gone with regarding Ainsley. Jones is dead, so no point in submitting complaints about him. As I have done before, I direct you to the beginning of this thread. Do you honestly believe that Newby, Joe Stone, Bill Robertson, 'David Shaw', Mike Tesko and others are all wrong about Ainsley? He's took evidence home and destroyed it ffs. And that's just the tip of the iceberg. You are on your own on Ainsley.

No you haven't. Much of what is written at the beginning of this thread can be explained by either the CPS not disclosing the material or lack diligence from JBs original trial counsel.

Mike and Bill have got lots of things wrong. Newby has already got one thing wrong (Nevills 999 call) So he can be wrong again. As for Stone were does he state Ainsley and Jones went out their way  to frame JB?