Author Topic: Was CAL fair to JB in her book?  (Read 15734 times)

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Offline David1819

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Was CAL fair to JB in her book?
« on: January 27, 2020, 10:35:PM »
In my opinion no she wasn't. For example -

Here is CAL telling the reader about the ballistic "experts" trial testimony.

"Under Edmund Lawson’s cross-examination the following morning, Fletcher acknowledged that not all gun experts were convinced by backspatter. To that end, Lawson pointed out that Nicholas had received at least one wound thought to have been caused when the weapon was against his skin, yet ‘there’s no forensic scientific evidence to suggest that anything attributable to the body of young Nicholas was found in the moderator or the gun.’ Fletcher explained that it might have been that the shot was inflicted after a fatal wound, when the blood was no longer pumping around his body. He added: ‘You have to take into account the position of the actual wounds themselves, and the amount of blood available at those particular points that could come out."

Interesting she mentions that Fletcher acknowledged that not all gun experts were convinced by backspatter. This can be found on page 77 of his sworn testimony. On the very same page Fletcher also acknowledged that back-spatter is most commonly seen in contact wounds to the head.

Q. That is what is known as back-spattering?
A. Yes sir.
Q. That phenomenon is the most commonly seen in contact gun-shot wounds to the head?
A. Yes sir.


Why omit this discrepancy? She must have read it. Edmund Lawson mentioned two contact wounds to the head of Nicholas not "at least one" Furthermore Fletcher admitted that the wound to the head of Nicholas that was not in contact with the skin was "very close" and close enough to produce back-spatter. Thus contradicting his claims of "the shot was inflicted after a fatal wound" Because this accounts for all three shots fired.

Here is the examination

"He explained the phenomenon of ‘backspatter’, declaring: ‘My opinion on this is that the blood in the sound moderator was due to the contact shot to the neck of Sheila Caffell.’ He confirmed that there was no substantial residue on Sheila’s hands or nightdress from the rifle or bullets to indicate that she was the killer."

No mention of Fletcher conceding that his opinion on the nightdress was meaningless?

Relevant part here -http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10038.msg459422.html#msg459422

The testimony of Malcom Fletcher is one the most important parts of the case. Its 50 pages long. Yet CAL only gives it three paragraphs. She interviewed Malcom Fletcher but did she even try to contact ballistic experts used by the defense who had a different opinion? such as Philip Boyce or Dr Fowler?
She interview Peter Vanezis but not the defense pathologist Bernard Knight. Why?

It becomes apparent that the book is deliberately peddling a guilt a narrative. But masquerading as fair and balanced in such a way that only those well versed in the case will realize.
« Last Edit: January 27, 2020, 11:42:PM by David1819 »

Offline JackieD

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Re: Was CAL fair to JB in her book?
« Reply #1 on: January 27, 2020, 10:53:PM »
From what I have heard about the book and seen on tele there absolutely nothing new in the book or the drama
Julie Mugford the main prosecution witness was guilty of numerous crimes, 13 separate cheque frauds, robbery, and drug dealing and also making a deal with a national newspaper before trial that if she could convince a jury her ex boyfriend was guilty of five murders she would receive £25,000

Offline Caroline

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Re: Was CAL fair to JB in her book?
« Reply #2 on: January 27, 2020, 10:55:PM »
From what I have heard about the book and seen on tele there absolutely nothing new in the book or the drama

You haven;t read her book and she didn't write the drama!
Few people have the imagination for reality

Offline David1819

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Re: Was CAL fair to JB in her book?
« Reply #3 on: January 27, 2020, 10:57:PM »
From what I have heard about the book and seen on tele there absolutely nothing new in the book or the drama

Ann directly accusing JB of the murders is something new. It never happened but its new  ;D

Offline lookout

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Re: Was CAL fair to JB in her book?
« Reply #4 on: January 27, 2020, 11:04:PM »
Ann directly accusing JB of the murders is something new. It never happened but its new  ;D






That was known as thinking out loud---and living in hope. :o

Offline Caroline

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Re: Was CAL fair to JB in her book?
« Reply #5 on: January 27, 2020, 11:15:PM »
I wonder why you asked this question? Hmmmmmm  ::)
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Offline David1819

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Re: Was CAL fair to JB in her book?
« Reply #6 on: January 27, 2020, 11:29:PM »
Here is part of what CAL wrote about Bernard Knights testimony.

"His final comment encapsulated the difficulty he had in determining whether Sheila or Jeremy was the killer: ‘In all this, the supposition exceeds the evidence."

Here is the actual transcript.


"Q: I think he based it all on the blood pattern, however. He puts her on her right side and partially sitting. You put it slightly differently, sitting or leaning slightly backwards.

A: I think on reflection she could not be leaning backwards to any significant degree. She would have to be upright or slightly forward.

Q: I am not sure that I have not made the mistake in saying you said "backwards".

A: I think it was my fault, your lordship. In all this, the supposition exceeds the evidence. I do not think we know except that she must have been in some kind of upright posture at the time that lower shot was inflicted.
"

No CAL. He wasn't expressing difficulty in knowing who the killer was. He was expressing difficulty in determining the exact upright position Sheila was in when she was shot!

Dear God! This is like Making a Murderer but in reverse.
« Last Edit: January 28, 2020, 01:22:AM by David1819 »

Offline David1819

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Re: Was CAL fair to JB in her book?
« Reply #7 on: January 28, 2020, 01:07:AM »
CAL wrote -

"Fletcher’s colleague Glynis Howard gave evidence next, followed by Brian Elliot, who told the court about the very low levels of lead detected from Sheila’s hand swabs. Rivlin counteracted his testimony by referring to ritualistic washing again and drawing Elliot’s attention to traces of other elements, iron and copper, in the test results. The scientist responded that these were no higher than might be ordinarily obtained from the atmosphere."

Glynis Howard and Brian Elliot's testimony combined consists of precisely 30 pages. Think it warrants more than three sentences.

No mention of Sheila having 4 times as much lead or her right hand than her left. No mention of Elliot admitting the copper levels on Sheilas hands were the same as the lab staff who loaded 18 bullets into the magazine. No mention of Elliot admitting it could be a result of her loading the gun.

B.R. Elliott, Cross-examined.
Q: Would you now go over the page to the left hand of the female member of lab staff who was handling 18 of these cartridges and look at the copper there.

A: Yes.

Q: There is copper?

A: Yes there is.

Q: And it is a matter of comment, but if one goes back to Sheila's left hand swab it is about the same as Sheila's isn't it?

A: Yes.

------------------------
Q: As regards cartridges. When a cartridge is loaded into the magazine are you aware of this fact that the cartridge is liable to get scratched?

A: I know it can do yes.

Q: In those circumstances there may be particles of brass scratched off the cartridge.

A: Yes that is possible, yes.

Q: And it is right. isn't it. that a fine scratched off particles might show on your graph?

A: Yes that is correct.


Read more on this subject here: http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,9975.msg455530.html#msg455530

Offline Caroline

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Re: Was CAL fair to JB in her book?
« Reply #8 on: January 28, 2020, 01:29:AM »
CAL wrote -

"Fletcher’s colleague Glynis Howard gave evidence next, followed by Brian Elliot, who told the court about the very low levels of lead detected from Sheila’s hand swabs. Rivlin counteracted his testimony by referring to ritualistic washing again and drawing Elliot’s attention to traces of other elements, iron and copper, in the test results. The scientist responded that these were no higher than might be ordinarily obtained from the atmosphere."

Glynis Howard and Brian Elliot's testimony combined consists of precisely 30 pages. Think it warrants more than three sentences.

No mention of Sheila having 4 times as much lead or her right hand than her left. No mention of Elliot admitting the copper levels on Sheilas hands were the same as the lab staff who loaded 18 bullets into the magazine. No mention of Elliot admitting it could be a result of her loading the gun.

B.R. Elliott, Cross-examined.
Q: Would you now go over the page to the left hand of the female member of lab staff who was handling 18 of these cartridges and look at the copper there.

A: Yes.

Q: There is copper?

A: Yes there is.

Q: And it is a matter of comment, but if one goes back to Sheila's left hand swab it is about the same as Sheila's isn't it?

A: Yes.

------------------------
Q: As regards cartridges. When a cartridge is loaded into the magazine are you aware of this fact that the cartridge is liable to get scratched?

A: I know it can do yes.

Q: In those circumstances there may be particles of brass scratched off the cartridge.

A: Yes that is possible, yes.

Q: And it is right. isn't it. that a fine scratched off particles might show on your graph?

A: Yes that is correct.


Read more on this subject here: http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,9975.msg455530.html#msg455530

Yes everyone, follow the link to another of David's posts  ::). Read more about David's idea's by following the link. More link's to David's posts to follow (yawn!).
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Offline Kaldin

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Re: Was CAL fair to JB in her book?
« Reply #9 on: January 28, 2020, 07:15:AM »
Here is part of what CAL wrote about Bernard Knights testimony.

"His final comment encapsulated the difficulty he had in determining whether Sheila or Jeremy was the killer: ‘In all this, the supposition exceeds the evidence."

Here is the actual transcript.


"Q: I think he based it all on the blood pattern, however. He puts her on her right side and partially sitting. You put it slightly differently, sitting or leaning slightly backwards.

A: I think on reflection she could not be leaning backwards to any significant degree. She would have to be upright or slightly forward.

Q: I am not sure that I have not made the mistake in saying you said "backwards".

A: I think it was my fault, your lordship. In all this, the supposition exceeds the evidence. I do not think we know except that she must have been in some kind of upright posture at the time that lower shot was inflicted.
"

No CAL. He wasn't expressing difficulty in knowing who the killer was. He was expressing difficulty in determining the exact upright position Sheila was in when she was shot!

Dear God! This is like Making a Murderer but in reverse.

The issue of this "partially sitting" has always been a puzzle. It does suggest leaning backwards to an extent, but it's quite difficult to lean backwards without leaning on something. Sitting and leaning forward is easier.

Of course, she could have been leaning back on her hands, in which case she certainly wasn't holding a gun.
« Last Edit: January 28, 2020, 07:52:AM by Kaldin »

guest7363

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Re: Was CAL fair to JB in her book?
« Reply #10 on: January 28, 2020, 08:14:AM »
So if you haven’t read all the book you cannot comment, David picking little extracts out doesn’t work, because CAL might be fair to him on others?

guest7363

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Re: Was CAL fair to JB in her book?
« Reply #11 on: January 28, 2020, 08:33:AM »
I wonder why you asked this question? Hmmmmmm  ::)
Oh yes

Offline David1819

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Re: Was CAL fair to JB in her book?
« Reply #12 on: January 28, 2020, 08:59:AM »
So if you haven’t read all the book you cannot comment, David picking little extracts out doesn’t work, because CAL might be fair to him on others?

CALs fine with it according to the Sun.

  “Nothing I saw made me doubt his guilt. There really wasn’t anything, from my personal view point.
“I know there are plenty of other people who disagree. And that’s fine, as long as you can back up your reasons with material evidence, not just what his campaign team have said.”


👍


PS: I have read about 70% of the book. I skipped everything till the shootings/investigation began.

« Last Edit: January 28, 2020, 08:59:AM by David1819 »

guest7363

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Re: Was CAL fair to JB in her book?
« Reply #13 on: January 28, 2020, 09:01:AM »
CALs fine with it according to the Sun.

  “Nothing I saw made me doubt his guilt. There really wasn’t anything, from my personal view point.
“I know there are plenty of other people who disagree. And that’s fine, as long as you can back up your reasons with material evidence, not just what his campaign team have said.”


👍


PS: I have read about 70% of the book. I skipped everything till the shootings/investigation began.
So that’s  30% you haven’t read then?

Offline sami

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Re: Was CAL fair to JB in her book?
« Reply #14 on: January 28, 2020, 09:03:AM »
they have been slagging off cal for the past few days now the question is was she fair ,another few days of idiotic remarks