Blood on Sheila´s Arm

[Alias]

My husband has had a severe nosebleed for some days, and I learned something from that in connection to the blood pattern on Sheila's right arm.
My husband got one of those sudden bouts of blood running from his nose when I was sitting facing him. The first thing he did was to take his hand to his nose and lean forward, and what I saw, startled me.
A large drop of blood ran down his arm, and it looked EXACTLY like the stripes of blood down Sheila's arm (as shown in picture), except there was only one. It dried very quickly in that pattern with the heavier pooling at the bottom; the blood was arrested there, in very much the same location as what is seen on Sheila´s arm, i.e. halfway around the arm, same angle of bloodstripe. It was amazing to see how fast it dried - five minutes tops. AND there was no blood on his shirt apart from a few small stains at the bottom of his shirt, NONE at the top (he was sitting on a sofa leaning forward).
I have always wondered how Sheila got those distinctive stripes of blood on her arm - now I've seen how. She must have put her hand to her (first) wound, then  leaned forward in an upright position, and blood wouldn't necessarily  make its way to the front of her nightgown.
I wish I had taken a picture of the stripe of blood on my husband's arm - but he was annoyed that I just sat there gawking at the blood as it was! (Can't blame him!  )

[mike tesko]

interesting insight and observations...

[Alias]

Well, I was amazed at what I saw.
BTW, notice the "bump" on Sheila´s arm, located at blood-stripe four from top. It is quite distinct and COULD be consistent with someone having fired a gun 25-26 times.
And further BTW, if I may say so, Sheila would not have had to load gun more than once if two guns were used, which I believe is very possible.

[mike tesko]

Well, I was amazed at what I saw.
BTW, notice the "bump" on Sheila´s arm, located at blood-stripe four from top. It is quite distinct and COULD be consistent with someone having fired a gun 25-26 times.
And further BTW, if I may say so, Sheila would not have had to load gun more than once if two guns were used, which I believe is very possible.

----------------

Again, interesting observations - as for another gun being used, I have always been very interested in the 14 bullet cases kept at the lab' at Huntingdon bearing the exhibit mark, MDF/100, and think these could be 14 of the original bullet cases, which were either super-glued, or fired by a different gun?

According to the evidence, Ballistic expert, Fletcher, only produced one other exhibit in the case, MDF/1 which was the cloth pull through test, which he said was pulled through the barrel of the Bamber rifle to see if there was any blood inside it, but it turned out to be clean and blood free...

Where are the missing 98 exhibits, MDF/2 to MDF/99?

[chochokeira]

Well, I was amazed at what I saw.
BTW, notice the "bump" on Sheila´s arm, located at blood-stripe four from top. It is quite distinct and COULD be consistent with someone having fired a gun 25-26 times.
And further BTW, if I may say so, Sheila would not have had to load gun more than once if two guns were used, which I believe is very possible.

----------------

Again, interesting observations - as for another gun being used, I have always been very interested in the 14 bullet cases kept at the lab' at Huntingdon bearing the exhibit mark, MDF/100, and think these could be 14 of the original bullet cases, which were either super-glued, or fired by a different gun?

According to the evidence, Ballistic expert, Fletcher, only produced one other exhibit in the case, MDF/1 which was the cloth pull through test, which he aid was pulled through the barrel of the Bamber rifle to see if there was any blood inside it, but it turned out to be clean and blood free...

Where are the missing 98 exhibits, MDF/2 to MDF/99?

Jeremy, while waiting outside the murder scene at WHF,  told the police that all, or many, of the small armoury of guns at WHF were likely to be loaded.  (David Shaw's manuscript)

Sheila would have known this, wouldn't she? Why would she bother to load rifles when she had pre-loaded rifles available?

[chochokeira]

My husband has had a severe nosebleed for some days, and I learned something from that in connection to the blood pattern on Sheila's right arm.
My husband got one of those sudden bouts of blood running from his nose when I was sitting facing him. The first thing he did was to take his hand to his nose and lean forward, and what I saw, startled me.
A large drop of blood ran down his arm, and it looked EXACTLY like the stripes of blood down Sheila's arm (as shown in picture), except there was only one. It dried very quickly in that pattern with the heavier pooling at the bottom; the blood was arrested there, in very much the same location as what is seen on Sheila´s arm, i.e. halfway around the arm, same angle of bloodstripe. It was amazing to see how fast it dried - five minutes tops. AND there was no blood on his shirt apart from a few small stains at the bottom of his shirt, NONE at the top (he was sitting on a sofa leaning forward).
I have always wondered how Sheila got those distinctive stripes of blood on her arm - now I've seen how. She must have put her hand to her (first) wound, then  leaned forward in an upright position, and blood wouldn't necessarily  make its way to the front of her nightgown.
I wish I had taken a picture of the stripe of blood on my husband's arm - but he was annoyed that I just sat there gawking at the blood as it was! (Can't blame him!  )

Well observed, abs. Thank you for this compelling explanation of how Sheila might have acquired the 'striped' blood stains on her arm. +1

[smiffy]

Its clear from a number of pictures that most the blood loss from Sheila pooled in the right underarm area....
This area of pooled blood seemed to have dripped onto the carpet to give the distinct pattern found in the area by the right shoulder when her body was being carried and moved into position.

It's clear Sheila was moved... and in my view when she was being carried blood from the pooling in the right underarm area would drip...now if her right arm was dangling down when being moved it would drip onto her arm in several places...and run from there  when her arm was placed across her when on the floor or similar.
This seems feasible and makes sense...though not ruling out other possibilities...I favour something like I have described.

[Alias]

Its clear from a number of pictures that most the blood loss from Sheila pooled in the right underarm area....
This area of pooled blood seemed to have dripped onto the carpet to give the distinct pattern found in the area by the right shoulder when her body was being carried and moved into position.

It's clear Sheila was moved... and in my view when she was being carried blood from the pooling in the right underarm area would drip...now if her right arm was dangling down when being moved it would drip onto her arm in several places...and run from there  when her arm was placed across her when on the floor or similar.
This seems feasible and makes sense...though not ruling out other possibilities...I favour something like I have described.

I cannot agree with that. IMO, the blood you see on the photo would have formed this pattern by Sheila holding her hand to her wound - and I think she must have been sitting or standing still for some minutes. And it must be blood from the first wound.
In your scenario I think there would have been some splatter on the arm from where the drops fell. I don't see that.

[mike tesko]

Well, in 2003 whilst visiting Ewen Smiths office in Birmingham, I saw a crime scene photograph of Sheila on the bed, at a time when she did not have blood running and leaking from the corners of her mouth, now what this must mean, is that Sheila was on the bed, before she ended up on the floor, and that blood from the corners of her mouth, ran out whilst her body was being displaced from the bed to the floor, now there can be no other feasible explanation for it, Sheila was moved onto the floor by the police and if they put her body there, they also must have put the rifle on top of her body there, and positioned her right hand upon the gun...

It also must mean, that members of the raid team made false statements about where they originally found Sheila - because they could not have found Sheila on the floor with the gun on top of her body and her right hand on the gun or the bible resting partially upon the top outer part of her right arm, because before Sheila ever got to that position, PC Bird photographed Sheila on the bed, and at that time there was no blood running or leaning or pouring from either corner of her mouth, and so nobody should be in any sort of doubt that it was the police who moved Sheila's body about in the bedroom, and it was the police who put the rifle on her body, and it was the police who re-positioned her hand upon that gun, and it was the police who moved the bible into positions against the body, it was not Jeremy who did any of these things and it was not any as yet unidentified killer - it was the police...

[Roch]

Well, in 2003 whilst visiting Ewen Smiths office in Birmingham, I saw a crime scene photograph of Sheila on the bed, at a time when she did not have blood running and leaking from the corners of her mouth, now what this must mean, is that Sheila was on the bed, before she ended up on the floor, and that blood from the corners of her mouth, ran out whilst her body was being displaced from the bed to the floor, now there can be no other feasible explanation for it, Sheila was moved onto the floor by the police and if they put her body there, they also must have put the rifle on top of her body there, and positioned her right hand upon the gun...

It also must mean, that members of the raid team made false statements about where they originally found Sheila - because they could not have found Sheila on the floor with the gun on top of her body and her right hand on the gun or the bible resting partially upon the top outer part of her right arm, because before Sheila ever got to that position, PC Bird photographed Sheila on the bed, and at that time there was no blood running or leaning or pouring from either corner of her mouth, and so nobody should be in any sort of doubt that it was the police who moved Sheila's body about in the bedroom, and it was the police who put the rifle on her body, and it was the police who re-positioned her hand upon that gun, and it was the police who moved the bible into positions against the body, it was not Jeremy who did any of these things and it was not any as yet unidentified killer - it was the police...

The value of that photo is immense.  I mean value as in every sense of the term.  I expect it has long since been disposed of.

[clifford]

Well, in 2003 whilst visiting Ewen Smiths office in Birmingham, I saw a crime scene photograph of Sheila on the bed, at a time when she did not have blood running and leaking from the corners of her mouth, now what this must mean, is that Sheila was on the bed, before she ended up on the floor, and that blood from the corners of her mouth, ran out whilst her body was being displaced from the bed to the floor, now there can be no other feasible explanation for it, Sheila was moved onto the floor by the police and if they put her body there, they also must have put the rifle on top of her body there, and positioned her right hand upon the gun...

It also must mean, that members of the raid team made false statements about where they originally found Sheila - because they could not have found Sheila on the floor with the gun on top of her body and her right hand on the gun or the bible resting partially upon the top outer part of her right arm, because before Sheila ever got to that position, PC Bird photographed Sheila on the bed, and at that time there was no blood running or leaning or pouring from either corner of her mouth, and so nobody should be in any sort of doubt that it was the police who moved Sheila's body about in the bedroom, and it was the police who put the rifle on her body, and it was the police who re-positioned her hand upon that gun, and it was the police who moved the bible into positions against the body, it was not Jeremy who did any of these things and it was not any as yet unidentified killer - it was the police...

Which is why I think the police shot her.
Mike your confermation that the police were armed with .22 ammo only reinforces my opinion.

[mike tesko]

I think both June and Sheila were found on the bed at some point, and that both bodies were moved onto different parts of the bedroom floor, June was moved in the vicinity of the bedroom door and Sheila was placed on the floor on the opposite side of the bed. A big clue to what did take place can be found amongst the notes of PS Adams interview by COLP where at the end of the notes, he makes mention of the fact that after discussing the position of Sheila's body in the bedroom with two of his colleagues, they were of the opinion that June and Sheila must have been sat in bed reading the bible before the shootings started...

Now why would PS Adams say that, if there was not any truth in it?

[mike tesko]

Well, in 2003 whilst visiting Ewen Smiths office in Birmingham, I saw a crime scene photograph of Sheila on the bed, at a time when she did not have blood running and leaking from the corners of her mouth, now what this must mean, is that Sheila was on the bed, before she ended up on the floor, and that blood from the corners of her mouth, ran out whilst her body was being displaced from the bed to the floor, now there can be no other feasible explanation for it, Sheila was moved onto the floor by the police and if they put her body there, they also must have put the rifle on top of her body there, and positioned her right hand upon the gun...

It also must mean, that members of the raid team made false statements about where they originally found Sheila - because they could not have found Sheila on the floor with the gun on top of her body and her right hand on the gun or the bible resting partially upon the top outer part of her right arm, because before Sheila ever got to that position, PC Bird photographed Sheila on the bed, and at that time there was no blood running or leaning or pouring from either corner of her mouth, and so nobody should be in any sort of doubt that it was the police who moved Sheila's body about in the bedroom, and it was the police who put the rifle on her body, and it was the police who re-positioned her hand upon that gun, and it was the police who moved the bible into positions against the body, it was not Jeremy who did any of these things and it was not any as yet unidentified killer - it was the police...

Which is why I think the police shot her.
Mike your confermation that the police were armed with .22 ammo only reinforces my opinion.

---------------

I have the statement somewhere which confirms that at least one of the firearms team was issued with a .22 semi-automatic rifle, which I will be posting soon...

But if Sheila had already been shot once downstairs that led the police to suspect that she had committed suicide there, which gun was used upstairs in the bedroom to inflict the fatal shot? David Shaw was adamant that the police did not shoot Sheila at all, but that she took her own life by use of the gun at the bedroom window...

[Roch]

I think both June and Sheila were found on the bed at some point, and that both bodies were moved onto different parts of the bedroom floor, June was moved in the vicinity of the bedroom door and Sheila was placed on the floor on the opposite side of the bed. A big clue to what did take place can be found amongst the notes of PS Adams interview by COLP where at the end of the notes, he makes mention of the fact that after discussing the position of Sheila's body in the bedroom with two of his colleagues, they were of the opinion that June and Sheila must have been sat in bed reading the bible before the shootings started...

Now why would PS Adams say that, if there was not any truth in it?

Mike, sorry to bang on about this... but is it possible to have Bob Miller's notebook uploaded?  I believe it may contain some relevant info re Sheila on the bed?

[Alias]

I just cannot see why and how one of the police officers shot Sheila. Please explain, because it makes no sense at all to me!