Author Topic: Conflicting Statements  (Read 80511 times)

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Offline Jane

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Re: Conflicting Statements
« Reply #105 on: December 21, 2019, 07:47:PM »
If he was convicted on anything other than evidence, it should have been a mistrial.


I'm not saying you're wrong, but how will such ever be discovered? I'm not having a go AT Lookout, but there's nothing about this case which would convince her of Jeremy's guilt. The evidence to someone with her mind set will be irrelevant. The jury spend a long time looking at, and listening to, the defendant. I'm pretty sure they arrive at their decision -what ever it is- on more than just evidence.

Offline JackieD

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Re: Conflicting Statements
« Reply #106 on: December 21, 2019, 09:32:PM »
The Eaton’s and the Boutflour’s had consistently denied that Sheila would have had any knowledge of guns and despite her attending shoots as a ‘beater’ she had never been seen firing a gun according to the family. Jeremy had already stated that Sheila had used an air rifle while out shooting with him. Jeremy had told his lawyers that David Boutflour had been shooting with Sheila Caffell and under cross examination David was pressed by Geoffrey Rivlin QC about a shooting holiday in Scotland here is an extract from his trial transcript:

Q: As regards Sheila: Of course you knew Sheila, did you not?

A : I knew Sheila quite well. In later years, but when she was in her teenage years, when I was unmarried and near, I would often take her to the local village hop or party or dinner dance.

Q : Did you ever take her on a shooting holiday?

A: Jeremy Bamber with his father came on a shooting holiday, but I cannot honestly recollect Sheila coming on one.

Q : Do you remember an occasion when you went to Scotland on a shooting holiday with Sheila?”

A : I do not recollect a shooting holiday with Sheila, but I do recollect a shooting holiday with Nevill Bamber and his son Jeremy, and also my now wife Karen Boutflour.

Q: Are you saying you have never been to Scotland with Sheila and/or others on a shooting holiday?

A : I cannot recollect Sheila being on the shooting holiday you are referring to.

Q: Did you not go on a shooting holiday with Sheila and Jeremy Bamber being present?

A : My mind is somewhat blurred at this time. There may have been and occasion when Nevill Bamber and Jeremy . . . . but this must have been many years before that.

Q : It may have been some years before. I cannot give you a date, do you understand but doing the best I can, may I suggest to you 1978/79 period, when you went on a shooting holiday with Sheila?

Mr Justice Drake: Where abouts are you putting?

Mr Rivlin: In Scoland

Mr Justice Drake: Just the two of them, it is suggested?

The Witness:  I think I can possibly explain this a little further. It is such a long time ago I am having a lot of trouble recollecting this but, having suddenly put me on the spot, I think I can remember occasions when I have taken members of the family up to Scotland, and I belonged to a shooting party of about eight members, which we invited a guest on one or the second occasion, and we would shoot on August 12th – The Glorious Twelfth – and sometimes in September shooting on three days on each occasion.

Q: You understand I am not concerned to ask you about just any old holiday that you may have been on, however pleasant, but to ask you about a time when you took Sheila up with you, and there was such an occasion, was there not Mr Boutlfour?

Q: I have a feeling, now you have brought back the grey matter a little, Sheila may have come up with me on one occasion.

Q: Can you tell the court, did she do any shooting?”

A: It’s such a long time ago, I cannot recollect, but she certainly did not carry a gun. She may have fired a gun off in the party perhaps.

Q: She may have, but you cannot recollect?

A: I can recollect somebody firing a 12 bore off and putting it up to their shoulder, but I do not recollect whether it was Sheila or another lady.

Peter Eaton details in his handwritten draft statements to the City of London Police in 1991 that he saw Sheila using a gun on a shooting holiday in Scotland, but this was crossed out with the word “NO” written over the top of it and did not appear in the final Statement to police. It now surfaces from the evidence presented here that there is some confusion over whether Sheila had actually been seen with a gun or not. [2]  Indeed, both David and Anthony had agreed in front of DCI Taff Jones that Sheila could have been capable of using the gun to kill the family,[3] perhaps this idea came from undisclosed events like the shooting party in Scotland.
Julie Mugford the main prosecution witness was guilty of numerous crimes, 13 separate cheque frauds, robbery, and drug dealing and also making a deal with a national newspaper before trial that if she could convince a jury her ex boyfriend was guilty of five murders she would receive £25,000

Offline Caroline

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Re: Conflicting Statements
« Reply #107 on: December 21, 2019, 10:01:PM »
If he was convicted on anything other than evidence, it should have been a mistrial.

People are influenced by many factors, it's human nature - you can't mistrial the whole lots based on that.
Few people have the imagination for reality

guest7363

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Re: Conflicting Statements
« Reply #108 on: December 21, 2019, 10:03:PM »
Doesn’t anyone else find it strange, the site and the CT site is full of lots of information and statements, even court transactions, yet BAMBERS own court testimony isn’t here?  Or have I missed it? 

Offline lookout

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Re: Conflicting Statements
« Reply #109 on: December 21, 2019, 10:06:PM »
I didn't realise you were so interested RJ ?

Offline Jane

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Re: Conflicting Statements
« Reply #110 on: December 21, 2019, 10:07:PM »
Doesn’t anyone else find it strange, the site and the CT site is full of lots of information and statements, even court transactions, yet BAMBERS own court testimony isn’t here?  Or have I missed it?


Think we'd all love to read it, RJ

guest7363

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Re: Conflicting Statements
« Reply #111 on: December 21, 2019, 10:08:PM »
I didn't realise you were so interested RJ ?
Well it is important, I didn’t know if I’d missed them or not that’s all Lookout? 

Offline Kaldin

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Re: Conflicting Statements
« Reply #112 on: December 21, 2019, 10:10:PM »
I think I read somewhere that it was just not available. Can't remember where I read that now.

Offline David1819

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Re: Conflicting Statements
« Reply #113 on: December 21, 2019, 10:13:PM »
According to the Court of appeal, no transcript of his testimony has survived.

guest7363

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Re: Conflicting Statements
« Reply #114 on: December 21, 2019, 10:16:PM »
I think I read somewhere that it was just not available. Can't remember where I read that now.
Im sure Mike said some while back Bamber had a copy?  Could be wrong though.  Strange all the same

Offline Jane

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Re: Conflicting Statements
« Reply #115 on: December 21, 2019, 10:20:PM »
Im sure Mike said some while back Bamber had a copy?  Could be wrong though.  Strange all the same

I understood it wasn't available.

Offline Caroline

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Re: Conflicting Statements
« Reply #116 on: December 21, 2019, 10:34:PM »
Doesn’t anyone else find it strange, the site and the CT site is full of lots of information and statements, even court transactions, yet BAMBERS own court testimony isn’t here?  Or have I missed it?

I've thought the same thing.
Few people have the imagination for reality

Offline Reader

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Re: Conflicting Statements
« Reply #117 on: December 21, 2019, 10:50:PM »
This idea of delaying the police contradicts the claim that Jeremy drove slow because he wanted the police to arrive at the scene before he did.
At the time, nobody claimed he drove slowly, and nothing suggests that he drove slowly.

guest7363

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Re: Conflicting Statements
« Reply #118 on: December 21, 2019, 11:04:PM »
I've thought the same thing.
I wonder if NGB knows the reason why, or if any are available.  Hope he reads this.

Offline sami

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Re: Conflicting Statements
« Reply #119 on: December 21, 2019, 11:21:PM »
At the time, nobody claimed he drove slowly, and nothing suggests that he drove slowly.
pc bewes stated that if jb had been going any slower he would have been stationery