Author Topic: Guardian re Boyce findings  (Read 20388 times)

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Offline lookout

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Re: Guardian re Boyce findings
« Reply #75 on: December 10, 2019, 09:44:PM »
Believes----which is different again from " could ".

Offline Jane

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Re: Guardian re Boyce findings
« Reply #76 on: December 10, 2019, 09:52:PM »
Believes----which is different again from " could ".



How ironic is that! It was once pointed out to me, by the woman who once called herself Preece, that believing doesn't have the same depth of certainty as knowing.

Offline lookout

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Re: Guardian re Boyce findings
« Reply #77 on: December 10, 2019, 10:11:PM »


How ironic is that! It was once pointed out to me, by the woman who once called herself Preece, that believing doesn't have the same depth of certainty as knowing.





Except that this happens to be in a different context.

Offline Caroline

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Re: Guardian re Boyce findings
« Reply #78 on: December 10, 2019, 10:48:PM »
If it were really true that blood specifically from Sheila was in two separate sound moderators, both of which were in police custody, then that could only point towards skullduggery on the part of police or associated others. Jeremy Bamber can't have swapped silencers in between shots. Not only is this not the prosecution case; it is also not consistent with the nature of both wounds (I think).

The police wouldn’t be stupid enough to fake two. This looks like the serial number rehashed!
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Offline Caroline

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Re: Guardian re Boyce findings
« Reply #79 on: December 10, 2019, 10:52:PM »



He " Believes both silencers contain blood from either JB's sister or RWB ".

When did he Personally examine both? The answer must be never given that the two silencers is still not proven!
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Offline Roch

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Re: Guardian re Boyce findings
« Reply #80 on: December 11, 2019, 08:28:AM »
The police wouldn’t be stupid enough to fake two. This looks like the serial number rehashed!

They don't seem to mind having multiple incident recording sheets from the same officer (but with discernable differences). I'm sure it'll all come out in the wash, if somebody later decides Boyce' reports can be published. Until then, we probably won't find out. The serial numbers seems to be an additional, secondary concern to the groove patterns.
« Last Edit: December 11, 2019, 08:30:AM by Roch »

Offline Caroline

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Re: Guardian re Boyce findings
« Reply #81 on: December 11, 2019, 11:28:AM »
They don't seem to mind having multiple incident recording sheets from the same officer (but with discernable differences). I'm sure it'll all come out in the wash, if somebody later decides Boyce' reports can be published. Until then, we probably won't find out. The serial numbers seems to be an additional, secondary concern to the groove patterns.

I have seen various copies of West's log and although there are some spelling mistake differences, they still say the same thing.

By 'groove patterns' I suspect he means those left on the bullets - however, I didn't think they still had those?
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Offline Bill Robertson

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Re: Guardian re Boyce findings
« Reply #82 on: December 11, 2019, 12:44:PM »
Well if there is blood specifically from Sheila inside two different sound moderators, the only light I can shed is that it is highly unlikely the blood got there from her being killed by Jeremy Bamber, for two reasons.
It can never be said with certainty that the blood inside the sound moderator(s) was from Sheila Caffell. All that can be stated is that the blood grouping was A PGM1+EAP BA AK1 Hp 2-1. Among the people involved in the case this grouping was common to Sheila and Robert Boutflour. If it is the case that blood from that grouping was found in two separate moderators it suggests strongly that Robert Boutflour deliberately contaminated both moderators with his blood, given that Sheila was dead and in no position to donate a blood sample to a second sound moderator.

Offline Jane

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Re: Guardian re Boyce findings
« Reply #83 on: December 11, 2019, 12:59:PM »
It can never be said with certainty that the blood inside the sound moderator(s) was from Sheila Caffell. All that can be stated is that the blood grouping was A PGM1+EAP BA AK1 Hp 2-1. Among the people involved in the case this grouping was common to Sheila and Robert Boutflour. If it is the case that blood from that grouping was found in two separate moderators it suggests strongly that Robert Boutflour deliberately contaminated both moderators with his blood, given that Sheila was dead and in no position to donate a blood sample to a second sound moderator.


I'd call that over egging the pudding. Besides which, whatever characteristics may be levied at RB, he definitely WASN'T a fool.

Offline Caroline

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Re: Guardian re Boyce findings
« Reply #84 on: December 11, 2019, 01:55:PM »
It can never be said with certainty that the blood inside the sound moderator(s) was from Sheila Caffell. All that can be stated is that the blood grouping was A PGM1+EAP BA AK1 Hp 2-1. Among the people involved in the case this grouping was common to Sheila and Robert Boutflour. If it is the case that blood from that grouping was found in two separate moderators it suggests strongly that Robert Boutflour deliberately contaminated both moderators with his blood, given that Sheila was dead and in no position to donate a blood sample to a second sound moderator.

Why would anyone contaminate 2 silencers? Bound to be caught!
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Offline Roch

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Re: Guardian re Boyce findings
« Reply #85 on: December 11, 2019, 01:57:PM »
I have seen various copies of West's log and although there are some spelling mistake differences, they still say the same thing.


The differences are discussed and illustrated here (pages 27-35).  I cant see any good reason why anyone would need to re-write a log Caroline.  If your employer askes you to re-write an original log of something at work - it's not exactly 'best practice' is it?

By 'groove patterns' I suspect he means those left on the bullets - however, I didn't think they still had those?

Not sure tbh.  I don't wish to speculate much further as there is an ongoing legal application and would like to respect the wishes of Mark Newby.

Offline Jane

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Re: Guardian re Boyce findings
« Reply #86 on: December 11, 2019, 02:26:PM »


The differences are discussed and illustrated here (pages 27-35).  I cant see any good reason why anyone would need to re-write a log Caroline.  If your employer askes you to re-write an original log of something at work - it's not exactly 'best practice' is it?

Not sure tbh.  I don't wish to speculate much further as there is an ongoing legal application and would like to respect the wishes of Mark Newby.


Isn't that a rather evasive reply. Whether or not something is considered "'best practice'" can hardly be compared with the idiocy behind introducing one's own blood into, not one, but two, silencers/moderators, in the hope that, in the event of one being missed, there was always one to fall back on, it will be mistaken for someone else's -presumably having ascertained that the blood types were similar/the same?- thus convicting a third person. As I've said, RB wasn't stupid -I believe he attended Cheltenham Royal Agg College?- the act you're suggesting occurred has rather more in common with a Frank Spencer sketch.

Offline Roch

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Re: Guardian re Boyce findings
« Reply #87 on: December 11, 2019, 02:39:PM »

Isn't that a rather evasive reply. Whether or not something is considered "'best practice'" can hardly be compared with the idiocy behind introducing one's own blood into, not one, but two, silencers/moderators, in the hope that, in the event of one being missed, there was always one to fall back on, it will be mistaken for someone else's -presumably having ascertained that the blood types were similar/the same?- thus convicting a third person. As I've said, RB wasn't stupid -I believe he attended Cheltenham Royal Agg College?- the act you're suggesting occurred has rather more in common with a Frank Spencer sketch.

My 'best practice' phrase related solely to Caroline's seemingly laid back attitude towards a C1 being re-wrote.  In other words, in terms of professional practice.. as a lay person looking in, it doesn't exactly fill you with much confidence does it?

I'm not suggesting that Robert Boutlfour placed his blood in two sound moderators.  However, surely something to be considered is the following.

If the police are adamant that the prosecution exhibit (sound moderator) was a single entity in its own right.. but it can be proven that this was not the case and there were in fact two sound moderators with varying degrees of contaminates going back and forth.. then you have to ask yourself why these same police officers were also engaged in some kind of C1 rewriting exercise. 

Like I say, as lay people looking in (if we're honest with ourselves) you wouldn't feel too comfortable being investigated by 1985 Essex Police.  They could pull something out of the hat at any moment.
« Last Edit: December 11, 2019, 02:43:PM by Roch »

guest7363

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Re: Guardian re Boyce findings
« Reply #88 on: December 11, 2019, 02:54:PM »

Isn't that a rather evasive reply. Whether or not something is considered "'best practice'" can hardly be compared with the idiocy behind introducing one's own blood into, not one, but two, silencers/moderators, in the hope that, in the event of one being missed, there was always one to fall back on, it will be mistaken for someone else's -presumably having ascertained that the blood types were similar/the same?- thus convicting a third person. As I've said, RB wasn't stupid -I believe he attended Cheltenham Royal Agg College?- the act you're suggesting occurred has rather more in common with a Frank Spencer sketch.
You know what they say Jane “Two for good measure”   Here’s another one, in case you missed the first.

Offline Caroline

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Re: Guardian re Boyce findings
« Reply #89 on: December 11, 2019, 02:59:PM »


The differences are discussed and illustrated here (pages 27-35).  I cant see any good reason why anyone would need to re-write a log Caroline.  If your employer askes you to re-write an original log of something at work - it's not exactly 'best practice' is it?

Not sure tbh.  I don't wish to speculate much further as there is an ongoing legal application and would like to respect the wishes of Mark Newby.

Then you should read this document sent to me by Jeremy a few years ago, how much confidence does this document fill you with given that it's saying the COMPLETE OPPOSITE of the document you posted. Yours claims that Jeremy called the police (West) at 03:36 having called Julie first and that it was Nevill who called at 03:26. The document he sent me states that HE called the police around 03:20, some minutes prior to the time claimed to have originally been entered on West's C1 form (03:26). He clearly states in your document that he called Julie first, in mine he's adamant that he called the police. He is categorically denying that he called West at 03:36 on mine and the opposite on yours.
« Last Edit: December 11, 2019, 03:01:PM by Caroline »
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