The Truth and the Documentary

[ngb1066]

I wouldn't mind if you had something intelligent to say, but these nuggets are few and far between if they exist at all. I'm not quite sure why I dislike you so much: others have made much the same personal comments (ngb1066 once said I didn't know one end of a silencer from the other) over the period of 7 years I've been a member here. It's not because of your pro-Jeremy stance: other posters such as Mike, lookout and David are of the same persuasion and I seem to relate amicably enough to them.

Maybe it's the "I know more than you" remark which seems to be pervasive in modern society today. We had it with Tony Blair during the Iraq war with the dodgy dossier during which 1 million people lost their lives. Let me tell you now ilovebooze: I do not expect an ex-con who has probably not studied the case for very long (your attempt at picking my brains was a dismal failure which is why you changed tack with personal invective) to know more than someone who has studied the case for seven years.

You have certainly dished out the personal comments yourself.  Your personal attacks on me in the past were dreadful.  You were even banned on one occasion.

[Steve_uk]

I only asked for evidence - I haven't read his book. You can drop the attitude.

Well do you expect the original to be exhibited on the internet somewhere-on ebay perhaps?

[Kaldin]

Steve you can post on this forum for the next 50 years but there is no excuse for the behaviour of Julie Mugford

I hope this Docu/Drama lets the whole world know about this disgusting women

It makes no difference either way if Jeremy is guilty or innocent the photo from the news of the world says it all. I would love it if that photo broke the internet

She made lots of money out of the murders and then gloated about it

She signed a deal with the News of the world before the trial (although everyone did there best to cover it up)instead of leaving the court room quietly

She had to convince a jury that Jeremy was guilty or no blood money

What a bloody actress going from being so distressed she couldn’t be cross examined to smiling in her underwear


In her wildest dreams she couldn’t have thought her part in the murders would be shown world wide

I hope that £25,000 will feel worth it over the next few months

If the new drama points to Jeremy being guilty you can bet it will be followed by one showing a miscarriage of justice

I see you're angry that Julie "got away with it". I don't mean she was involved in the murders, but she covered up for Jeremy, she made a lot of money out of a tragedy, she committed other crimes which she got away with, and she appears to have not suffered any consequences. I understand your feelings completely - she's generally portrayed in a good light as the girl who helped bring a mass murderer to justice.

[Steve_uk]

You have certainly dished out the personal comments yourself.  Your personal attacks on me in the past were dreadful.  You were even banned on one occasion.

Neil I have to hand it to you that you have been restrained in your discussion of the case, sometimes to the detriment of your argument I have thought. In the few posts where a personal opinion has been expressed( such as the one you mention and your guess that Julie was arrested when there's no evidence to substantiate) a member has the right to reply.

Incidentally I was never banned, though my status was downgraded from Hero Member for a couple of days.

[Kaldin]

Well do you expect the original to be exhibited on the internet somewhere-on ebay perhaps?

What is your problem? You must know that opinions on here are sometimes presented as fact, and that some people are unable to provide evidence of what they're claiming. At least a source should be given. Not everyone has read all these books which are designed to make money out of a tragedy.

[Steve_uk]

I see you're angry that Julie "got away with it". I don't mean she was involved in the murders, but she covered up for Jeremy, she made a lot of money out of a tragedy, she committed other crimes which she got away with, and she appears to have not suffered any consequences. I understand your feelings completely - she's generally portrayed in a good light as the girl who helped bring a mass murderer to justice.

The guilters are not averse to this sentiment, though we have seen through Jeremy Bamber and consider the bigger picture.

[Steve_uk]

What is your problem? You must know that opinions on here are sometimes presented as fact, and that some people are unable to provide evidence of what they're claiming. At least a source should be given. Not everyone has read all these books which are designed to make money out of a tragedy.

Can you just take it that the letter is genuine? Why would Colin write such an obnoxious letter and stick it in his book?

[Kaldin]

Can you just take it that the letter is genuine? Why would Colin write such an obnoxious letter and stick it in his book?

If it's in his book, I'm not disputing that its genuine. I'm just saying that that kind of thing should be accompanied by a source as not everyone is familiar with these money-making books.

[ILB]

Yes and it was a pathetic one, demonstrating perfectly how distorted your view of this case is even at this early stage of your perusal.

why was it pathetic? What would you expect bamber to do in his situation? Bombard Julie mugford with letters upon letters? How would that help him in one iota?? Imagine if the red tops got hold of that one?

[Kaldin]

The guilters are not averse to this sentiment, though we have seen through Jeremy Bamber and consider the bigger picture.

It's mostly the making of money out of it which bothers me. She came up with an excuse as to why she sold her story, but she kept the money - it's awful.

[Steve_uk]

why was it pathetic? What would you expect bamber to do in his situation? Bombard Julie mugford with letters upon letters? How would that help him in one iota?? Imagine if the red tops got hold of that one?

But that's exactly what he did with Colin, and several members here have pointed out to you that if he could do that to Colin, who played a very small part at trial, then why was Bamber not banging the drum about Julie's involvement from Day 1 of his incarceration?

[Steve_uk]

It's mostly the making of money out of it which bothers me. She came up with an excuse as to why she sold her story, but she kept the money - it's awful.

I agree Kaldin that the principle was shocking, the pictures were disgusting and in thoroughly bad taste. I do not make excuses. What I am questioning is ngb1066's motives for probing the News of the World deal when it's peripheral to the conviction of Jeremy Bamber and if you're of the innocent persuasion one would have thought there should be more profitable avenues to explore.

[ILB]

But that's exactly what he did with Colin, and several members here have pointed out to you that if he could do that to Colin, who played a very small part at trial, then why was Bamber not banging the drum about Julie's involvement from Day 1 of his incarceration?

he wrote a letter a short time after the first appeal failed  early 1989, He had been imprisoned for four years. It can be argued he was venting. Apart from Colin's book we are not privy to EVERY SINGLE FACTOR,  the in and outs of the Bamber caffell life story pre August 7th 1985. Anything we know is in the public domain. The same logic can be applied about yourself remarking on how " Jeremy has not been harrassing Julie makes him gulity stance) what good would come of it? He has always stated she was lying. From his own point of view " jilted love" and you cannot compare Julie and Colin in the circumstances

[Steve_uk]

he wrote a letter a short time after the first appeal failed  early 1989, He had been imprisoned for four years. It can be argued he was venting. Apart from Colin's book we are not privy to EVERY SINGLE FACTOR,  the in and outs of the Bamber caffell life story pre August 7th 1985. Anything we know is in the public domain. The same logic can be applied about yourself remarking on how " Jeremy has not been harrassing Julie makes him gulity stance) what good would come of it? He has always stated she was lying. From his own point of view " jilted love" and you cannot compare Julie and Colin in the circumstances

Let's get this straight: Julie, a girl whom Jeremy had been dating for almost two years suddenly makes up a 21-page statement accusing him of planning to murder his entire family for over a year and yet post-conviction Colin is the target?

[ngb1066]

I agree Kaldin that the principle was shocking, the pictures were disgusting and in thoroughly bad taste. I do not make excuses. What I am questioning is ngb1066's motives for probing the News of the World deal when it's peripheral to the conviction of Jeremy Bamber and if you're of the innocent persuasion one would have thought there should be more profitable avenues to explore.

There are more profitable avenues to explore and the NoW deal would in isolation be unlikely to be sufficient to win an appeal.  However the information now available, not available at trial or at the two appeals to date, undermines JM's credibility.  Taken with two other factors which also undermine her credibility this becomes a valid ground of appeal.  It would not be the primary ground of appeal but would form part of the overall grounds of appeal.  That is my motive for probing this and other aspects of the case.