Shell Casings Next To Sheila

[Adam]

on the flip side, it's hard to imagine why the 6 feet Jeremy Bamber would mess up being able to over power a woman shorter , lighter, weaker than him.  It's hard to imagine how much resistance Shelia would put up to stop Bamber from pointing the gun into a position on her body to effect a one shot suicide....

He was 2 inches away from an 1 bullet instant death shot.

Give the man some slack. He had never tried it before.

[Kaldin]

Its a puzzle, but every picture tells a story.  The two empty shell cases were in position when the police arrived and forced entry.  The body of Sheila was in position, it just seems an unnatural position for someone who had committed suicide, the positioning of the head doesn’t look right for someone Who, had  shot them self.

I believe

Sheila was sat upright with her back to the bedside cabinet, in this position she was shot once, this was the non fatal shot to the neck, the rifle then ejects the case which is DRH2, this case is further forward than DRH1.  The killer realises that Sheila is still alive and either panics or wants to make sure, she may have given the impression it wasn’t a fatal shot.  Realising the shot across the neck hasn’t worked, he wants to get a better shot more up through jaw and into the brain, so he drags her feet down enough to take her body off the bedside cabinet, (I’ve tried this twice and my head ended up the same position as Sheila’s) the head falls to the right of the cabinet because she’s more over to the right of the cabinet, he doesn’t want to pull her too far because it takes the victim away from the first shot area.  He turns the rifle upside down with the trigger pointing upwards and fires the second shot, this sends DRH1 case to the left. He then places the rifle onto the victims body. 

http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=887.0;attach=4072;image

In the position Sheila was in, I don’t think she could have sat upright and shot herself and ended up falling back without hitting some part of her head on the cabinet, it’s more like a controlled pulling back of the body.

http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=887.0;attach=4312

That's a very interesting scenario. I think that the position of her legs is quite strange - they're perfectly straight.

I wondered if she was backing away from Jeremy, and ended up on the floor. She could still back away by leaning on her hands and moving backwards - hence the "partially" sitting position.

[guest7363]

That's a very interesting scenario. I think that the position of her legs is quite strange - they're perfectly straight.

I wondered if she was backing away from Jeremy, and ended up on the floor. She could still back away by leaning on her hands and moving backwards - hence the "partially" sitting position.

Thanks Kaldin, I tried the pull back twice and my head dropped to the side of the bedside cupboard in an exact same position, I did sit a little more to the right away from the bed.   With Sheila, you could be right, but considering they had a long chat in the field while Jeremy was on the tractor, it could be she wanted to end her life anyway.  If we can believe she would kill her twin boys it’s not as daft as it sounds, but I think what you say is more feasible. 

[ILB]

He was 2 inches away from an 1 bullet instant death shot.

Give the man some slack. He had never tried it before.

on the flip side I imagine Shelia had never tried suicide with a rifle. But it doesn't take a lot of working out does it.....

[guest7363]

That's a very interesting scenario. I think that the position of her legs is quite strange - they're perfectly straight.

I wondered if she was backing away from Jeremy, and ended up on the floor. She could still back away by leaning on her hands and moving backwards - hence the "partially" sitting position.

Like you said, when we tried the pull back, my legs stayed straight but my head dropped to the side of the cabinet about six inches off the floor and rolled around the side of the cabinet, it didn’t even drop hard on the floor, but it was the same angle as Sheila’s head.

[Adam]

on the flip side I imagine Shelia had never tried suicide with a rifle. But it doesn't take a lot of working out does it.....

His first shot was not bad either. He made a quick decision to fire the second shot.

Sheila may have been breathing & even groaning. The pain for her would have been horrendous.

Unlikely she would have still been alive after 1 shot when the police entered WHF. But Bamber did not know that. He wanted to leave WHF with everyone dead.

In hindsite it was a mistake firing the second shot. Inheritance killers do make mistakes, which is why they get caught. Bamber was not smarter than the others.

[guest7363]

Like you said, when we tried the pull back, my legs stayed straight but my head dropped to the side of the cabinet about six inches off the floor and rolled around the side of the cabinet, it didn’t even drop hard on the floor, but it was the same angle as Sheila’s head.

My only thought was, that the underside of the nighty would have to be adjusted?  But take a look at this photo, there is definitely bunching of the nighty under Sheila as though she’s been pulled back?

http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=887.0;attach=4306

I know the arm is not in the same position, we’ve gone over this before, but that nightie is bunched?

[ILB]

His first shot was not bad either. He made a quick decision to fire the second shot.

Sheila may have been breathing & even groaning. The pain for her would have been horrendous.

Unlikely she would have still been alive after 1 shot when the police entered WHF. But Bamber did not know that. He wanted to leave WHF with everyone dead.

In hindsite it was a mistake firing the second shot. Inheritance killers do make mistakes, which is why they get caught. Bamber was not smarter than the others.

it's slightly different though. This is no Dana ewell. Menendez brothers scenario was it? Bamber was supposed to make it look like his sister had committed suicide ( after massacring the family ) I will ask again. What problems would he occur in shooting his sister in the temple, mouth, between the eyes et Al with one shot. What natural supply of pluck would Shelia find to resist bamber??

[Adam]

it's slightly different though. This is no Dana ewell. Menendez brothers scenario was it? Bamber was supposed to make it look like his sister had committed suicide ( after massacring the family ) I will ask again. What problems would he occur in shooting his sister in the temple, mouth, between the eyes et Al with one shot. What natural supply of pluck would Shelia find to resist bamber??

Well I do not how effective a shot with a rifle for shooting rabbits in those locations would be.

Nevill received 2 head shots and was able to get downstairs & put up a tremendous fight.

[ILB]

Sheila may have been breathing & even groaning. The pain for her would have been horrendous.

Unlikely she would have still been alive after 1 shot when the police entered WHF. But Bamber did not know that. He wanted to leave WHF with everyone dead.. so why does vanesiz state the first shot caused minimal damage ? To quote his own words ( she could stand and walk ) and two in regards to the pain she would have endured   do you think under the circumstances ( Shelia caffell taking her own life) she would have given it more than a moment's thought ( in regards to pain implications)

In hindsite it was a mistake firing the second shot. Inheritance killers do make mistakes, which is why they get caught. Bamber was not smarter than the others.

[Kaldin]

Thanks Kaldin, I tried the pull back twice and my head dropped to the side of the bedside cupboard in an exact same position, I did sit a little more to the right away from the bed.   With Sheila, you could be right, but considering they had a long chat in the field while Jeremy was on the tractor, it could be she wanted to end her life anyway.  If we can believe she would kill her twin boys it’s not as daft as it sounds, but I think what you say is more feasible.

I think that if Sheila did shoot herself, she was sitting up with her legs straight. It's possible that in that position she couldn't get the right angle, hence the shot to her neck.

[Kaldin]

Like you said, when we tried the pull back, my legs stayed straight but my head dropped to the side of the cabinet about six inches off the floor and rolled around the side of the cabinet, it didn’t even drop hard on the floor, but it was the same angle as Sheila’s head.

If she had been sitting leaning against the cabinet when the first shot happened, and was then dragged forwards, wouldn't there be blood stains to show that?

[ILB]

Well I do not how effective a shot with a rifle for shooting rabbits in those locations would be.

Nevill received 2 head shots and was able to get downstairs & put up a tremendous fight.

so if you suggest the first shot was near fatal. What do you suggest Shelia would have managed to do, let's say Bamber pissed off back to goldhanger?

[guest7363]

If she had been sitting leaning against the cabinet when the first shot happened, and was then dragged forwards, wouldn't there be blood stains to show that?

Do you mean on the cabinet Kaldin?  These could easily have been wiped away, he couldn’t risk police discovering any pull back, it means then that Sheila was murdered. 

[Kaldin]

Do you mean on the cabinet Kaldin?  These could easily have been wiped away, he couldn’t risk police discovering any pull back, it means then that Sheila was murdered.

I mean on the floor close to the cabinet.