Author Topic: Perjury that went unchallenged at trial.  (Read 39574 times)

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guest7363

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Re: Perjury that went unchallenged at trial.
« Reply #315 on: November 15, 2019, 07:29:AM »
This always intrigued me about Jeremys and Julie’s relationship, In Julie’s statement, she refers to Jeremy at one time was going to kill his family by setting the house on fire, he later told Julie he wouldn’t do it this way  because the insurance contents in WHF were low.  Julie hadn’t made up the fact the value of contents insurance was low,  because he mentions it in his statement to police.


http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=10043.0;attach=55441



http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=1144.0;attach=5846

Think of your reaction, one month after your family has been killed by your sister, your being interviewed and all of a sudden the police say, “it’s been proved that Sheila your sister did not kill herself in fact she was MURDERED along with the rest of your family”   Look at Jeremy’s reaction, regardless of what his solicitor tells him, how would someone innocent react to that news?

http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=1144.0;attach=5830

Offline ILB

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Re: Perjury that went unchallenged at trial.
« Reply #316 on: November 15, 2019, 07:30:AM »
Can you not be rude. Otherwise I will have to report you. Being a working class Northener who likes alcohol is no excuse.

If you are threatened by my posts because you know they are good points, you need to find counter points, rather than use aggression.

Why is it 'absolute bollocks'?

She said herself she did not believe his plans. I thought you read her WS.

Anyway you believe Julie should have started talking in the Panda car on the way to WHF. Although she wasn't even sure what had happened.
I'm pretty sure she had all the intelligence to decipher the problem. Seeing as though Jeremy had been giving her a an inkling hours previously. You are clutching at straws my friend
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Offline ILB

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Re: Perjury that went unchallenged at trial.
« Reply #317 on: November 15, 2019, 07:34:AM »
Can you not be rude. Otherwise I will have to report you. Being a working class Northener who likes alcohol is no excuse.

If you are threatened by my posts because you know they are good points, you need to find counter points, rather than use aggression.

Why is it 'absolute bollocks'?

She said herself she did not believe his plans. I thought you read her WS.

Anyway you believe Julie should have started talking in the Panda car on the way to WHF. Although she wasn't even sure what had happened.
" she did not believe his plans" come on Adam as soon has she heard they'd been five murders she would have damn well known Jeremy is responsible, after all what's the chances if your boyfriend tells you earlier in the day he's planning to kill his family, and they are killed, and that some other person was involved instead of him? And in regards to the macdonald scenario, she would still have direct knowledge that Bamber was involved. Even if he didn't pull the trigger. There can be no excuse
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Offline ILB

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Re: Perjury that went unchallenged at trial.
« Reply #318 on: November 15, 2019, 07:39:AM »
By the way. Reference " being a working class northerner who likes alcohol" there is no need to compliment me at such an early stage
If yesterday you hated me. Then today you can not stop the love that binds from me to you. And you to me

guest7363

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Re: Perjury that went unchallenged at trial.
« Reply #319 on: November 15, 2019, 07:48:AM »
I wonder now, if the reason Julie was having problems sleeping during their relationship, was a mixture of Jeremy’s constant reference to him wanting to kill his family, I know she gives the reason being her work, but subconsciously this would also have an effect?  She was prescribed tranquillisers but in the end only took one.


http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=10043.0;attach=55435

http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=10043.0;attach=55437

guest7363

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Re: Perjury that went unchallenged at trial.
« Reply #320 on: November 15, 2019, 07:53:AM »
By the way. Reference " being a working class northerner who likes alcohol" there is no need to compliment me at such an early stage
Quite right, better to debate the case and not get personal.

Offline Adam

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Re: Perjury that went unchallenged at trial.
« Reply #321 on: November 15, 2019, 08:07:AM »
I'm pretty sure she had all the intelligence to decipher the problem. Seeing as though Jeremy had been giving her a an inkling hours previously. You are clutching at straws my friend

Do not need to cluthch at straws. Bamber has been in prison for over 30 years.

Anyway this is going around in circles. Julie started telling friends after 3 weeks & approached the police after 4. Giving a detailed WS, testifying & never retracting a word.

Your opinion is she should have left Bamber & started telling the police everything from day one. Although you have never been in that situation.

Time to move on. How do you believe Sheila committed the massacre? I trust you know where the shots were fired,  there were 3 rifle loads, a brutal kitchen fight & 1/2 phone calls from Nevill.
'Only I know what really happened that night'.

Offline David1819

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Re: Perjury that went unchallenged at trial.
« Reply #322 on: November 15, 2019, 05:33:PM »
There is no question that Julie Mugford told a pack of lies.

We know she lied about Jeremy's confessions to her because they contain the same false details either published in the newspapers or told to Ann Eaton.

We know she lied about Mathew McDonald's involvement because she let slip that she didn't know if Mathew McDonald had ever been to the scene of the crime in the first place.

We know she lied about how she paid back the money she stole from the back because the bank manger and police records contradict her version of the event.

Hence its not even worth debating.

 
« Last Edit: November 15, 2019, 06:38:PM by David1819 »

Offline Adam

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Re: Perjury that went unchallenged at trial.
« Reply #323 on: November 15, 2019, 06:11:PM »
Taken from another thread.

Bamber's highly paid defence went through Julie's WS brick by brick. Looking for a brick they could pull out to bring everything crashing down.

However they could not find anything. Admitting to each other her WS had a 'ring of truth' to it.

Out of desperation, at trial the defence focused on the 1984 minor cheque book fraud. To try to show her as a dishonest person. The judge rightly poured scorn on this saying both Bamber & Julie had committed previous crime, but that does not mean either had lied at trial. He also said Julie had paid back the money ( Bamber had not).

The judge also said Bamber had also trusted Julie enough to tell her about the caravan break in, so may have trusted her enough to tell her about the massacre.

Julies WS is in different parts -


What happened after the massacre:

The eating out, hotels, trips around the country and abroad. There is no point in Julie lying here. A lot of other people joined them for some of these. Hotel bookings can be checked and relatives asked. So there was no reason to lie as everything can be easily checked.

What Bamber did does not highlight guilt or innocence anyway. Although Bamber's callous actions have come back to haunt him


Bamber's hatred and resentment :

This could be her word against Bamber's. But was not.

Bamber himself testified he had a very poor/non existent relationship with June.

He also called Sheila a 'nutter', 'looney', 'do lally' & 'pychotic depressive' on the massacre night. Saying they did not like each other and she had committed child abuse on the twins. Decades later saying he did not understand her illness.

There are also a lot of other people who said Bamber did not like his family or the raw deal he had. The facts back this up, Sheila living rent free in London, Bamber working long hours after reluctantly starting to work on the farm as a last resort.


The massacre plans:


This is again Julies word against Bamber's. However some of the things Julie said are backed up.

She said he planned to ride to WHF. This is backed up by the fact that the bike was brought over just before the massacre.

Julie also knew about the bible and kitchen fight. Which was not reported in the papers. And knew about the lockable from outside window.

The judge and appeal courts found it hard to understand Bamber's 3am call to Julie. Julie saying Bamber said 'he had not slept all night' and 'everything is going well'. When the police asked him about the call, he just said 'no comment'.

Julie also knew about the under insurance of WHF and the items inside. Michael Deckers also supports the suggestion that he considered burning down WHF.


Julies feelings
:

Her feelings while things were evolving can only be changed by Julie herself, and cannot be disputed.

                                  ___________________

Overall Julie's statement does have a 'ring of truth' to it. She approached the police and was not forced to say anything.

Her reason to lie was also very weak. Bamber allegedly jilting her, after he said their relationship had been in decline/coming to a close for six months. Her WS states she wanted out after the massacre but stayed for a short period.

It is outrageous that people accuse her saying an innocent man murdered his family.
« Last Edit: November 15, 2019, 06:13:PM by Adam »
'Only I know what really happened that night'.

Offline ILB

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Re: Perjury that went unchallenged at trial.
« Reply #324 on: November 15, 2019, 06:38:PM »
Taken from another thread.

Bamber's highly paid defence went through Julie's WS brick by brick. Looking for a brick they could pull out to bring everything crashing down.

However they could not find anything. Admitting to each other her WS had a 'ring of truth' to it.

Out of desperation, at trial the defence focused on the 1984 minor cheque book fraud. To try to show her as a dishonest person. The judge rightly poured scorn on this saying both Bamber & Julie had committed previous crime, but that does not mean either had lied at trial. He also said Julie had paid back the money ( Bamber had not).

The judge also said Bamber had also trusted Julie enough to tell her about the caravan break in, so may have trusted her enough to tell her about the massacre.

Julies WS is in different parts -


What happened after the massacre:

The eating out, hotels, trips around the country and abroad. There is no point in Julie lying here. A lot of other people joined them for some of these. Hotel bookings can be checked and relatives asked. So there was no reason to lie as everything can be easily checked.

What Bamber did does not highlight guilt or innocence anyway. Although Bamber's callous actions have come back to haunt him


Bamber's hatred and resentment :

This could be her word against Bamber's. But was not.

Bamber himself testified he had a very poor/non existent relationship with June.

He also called Sheila a 'nutter', 'looney', 'do lally' & 'pychotic depressive' on the massacre night. Saying they did not like each other and she had committed child abuse on the twins. Decades later saying he did not understand her illness.

There are also a lot of other people who said Bamber did not like his family or the raw deal he had. The facts back this up, Sheila living rent free in London, Bamber working long hours after reluctantly starting to work on the farm as a last resort.


The massacre plans:


This is again Julies word against Bamber's. However some of the things Julie said are backed up.

She said he planned to ride to WHF. This is backed up by the fact that the bike was brought over just before the massacre.

Julie also knew about the bible and kitchen fight. Which was not reported in the papers. And knew about the lockable from outside window.

The judge and appeal courts found it hard to understand Bamber's 3am call to Julie. Julie saying Bamber said 'he had not slept all night' and 'everything is going well'. When the police asked him about the call, he just said 'no comment'.

Julie also knew about the under insurance of WHF and the items inside. Michael Deckers also supports the suggestion that he considered burning down WHF.


Julies feelings
:

Her feelings while things were evolving can only be changed by Julie herself, and cannot be disputed.

                                  ___________________

Overall Julie's statement does have a 'ring of truth' to it. She approached the police and was not forced to say anything.

Her reason to lie was also very weak. Bamber allegedly jilting her, after he said their relationship had been in decline/coming to a close for six months. Her WS states she wanted out after the massacre but stayed for a short period.

It is outrageous that people accuse her saying an innocent man murdered his family.
how is it outrageous, because from what I've read above you don't attribute nothing to support her.
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Offline David1819

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Re: Perjury that went unchallenged at trial.
« Reply #325 on: November 15, 2019, 06:49:PM »
how is it outrageous, because from what I've read above you don't attribute nothing to support her.

What Adam does attribute to support her is in-fact more lies on his part. For example

Bamber's highly paid defence went through Julie's WS brick by brick. Looking for a brick they could pull out to bring everything crashing down.

However they could not find anything. Admitting to each other her WS had a 'ring of truth' to it.


This is a lie. Here is the conclusion that Jeremy's defence voiced in court

"The prosecution said Miss Mugford would have had to have had a convoluted mind to have made all this up. We say that she has."That Matthew (Mac-Donald) story is not only wrong in itself, but contains in it a number of details which can be proved to be untrue and which she can only have got from the police or Ann Eaton"

The phrase "ring of truth" actually comes from the judges summing in following passage

"Approach the evidence of Julie Mugford with a great degree of caution. Ask yourselves whether her evidence generally had the ring of truth about it."

Adam has also claimed Jeremy's defence was "highly paid" to give the impression he had a more effective counsel. That however is another distortion. Jeremy's legal team was funded entirely by legal aid.

A hodgepodge of lies, distortion and splicing is all it is.  ;D
« Last Edit: November 15, 2019, 06:50:PM by David1819 »

Offline Caroline

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Re: Perjury that went unchallenged at trial.
« Reply #326 on: November 15, 2019, 06:56:PM »


This is a lie. Here is the conclusion that Jeremy's defence voiced in court

"The prosecution said Miss Mugford would have had to have had a convoluted mind to have made all this up. We say that she has."That Matthew (Mac-Donald) story is not only wrong in itself, but contains in it a number of details which can be proved to be untrue and which she can only have got from the police or Ann Eaton"

Where is the quote from?
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Offline Adam

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Re: Perjury that went unchallenged at trial.
« Reply #327 on: November 15, 2019, 07:01:PM »
What Adam does attribute to support her is in-fact more lies on his part. For example

This is a lie. Here is the conclusion that Jeremy's defence voiced in court

"The prosecution said Miss Mugford would have had to have had a convoluted mind to have made all this up. We say that she has."That Matthew (Mac-Donald) story is not only wrong in itself, but contains in it a number of details which can be proved to be untrue and which she can only have got from the police or Ann Eaton"

The phrase "ring of truth" actually comes from the judges summing in following passage

"Approach the evidence of Julie Mugford with a great degree of caution. Ask yourselves whether her evidence generally had the ring of truth about it."

Adam has also claimed Jeremy's defence was "highly paid" to give the impression he had a more effective counsel. That however is another distortion. Jeremy's legal team was funded entirely by legal aid.

A hodgepodge of lies, distortion and splicing is all it is.  ;D

The 'ring of truth' on Julie's WS is said in Wilkes book.

Bamber had the top lawyers available. He needed them.

Agree Julie would have had a very convoluted mind to have made it all up. Also agree she was wrong about Matthew Macdonald. He had no involvement although Bamber told her he did to make him seem less of a monster. 

'Only I know what really happened that night'.

Offline Adam

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Re: Perjury that went unchallenged at trial.
« Reply #328 on: November 15, 2019, 07:04:PM »
Where is the quote from?

Good question.

I do not recall the defence saying Julie got information on her WS from the police or AE.

David often writes things in red or bold. However when reading them, they are often rubbish. 
« Last Edit: November 15, 2019, 07:05:PM by Adam »
'Only I know what really happened that night'.

Offline Jane

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Re: Perjury that went unchallenged at trial.
« Reply #329 on: November 15, 2019, 07:06:PM »


...........................................We know she lied about Mathew McDonald's involvement because she let slip that she didn't know if Mathew McDonald had ever been to the scene of the crime in the first place....................................




I can't see how the above claim follows. JULIE didn't say that MM was involved. Jeremy TOLD her that MM was involved. How can the lie be Julie's when she was only repeating what she'd been told?