Author Topic: Perjury that went unchallenged at trial.  (Read 39578 times)

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Offline lookout

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Re: Perjury that went unchallenged at trial.
« Reply #210 on: November 13, 2019, 05:24:PM »
What does that have to do with Jeremy and Julie?




I was answering Jane's post------do keep up.

Offline lookout

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Re: Perjury that went unchallenged at trial.
« Reply #211 on: November 13, 2019, 05:26:PM »

I'm talking about Jeremy's proposed nuptials! Keep up, please, Lookout!!!




Yeah, right. :o

Offline Jane

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Re: Perjury that went unchallenged at trial.
« Reply #212 on: November 13, 2019, 05:41:PM »



That " alleged conversation " with his parents was June controlling JB's future, the same as she did with Sheila's and both followed her instructions by parting company with their chosen ones as June was never enamoured with Colin either.


As you say, Lookout "Yeah, right". I WAS talking about Jeremy's proposed nuptials. YOU introduced Sheila and her pregnancy -some 8 years prior?- into the conversation.

Offline Caroline

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Re: Perjury that went unchallenged at trial.
« Reply #213 on: November 13, 2019, 05:50:PM »



I was answering Jane's post------do keep up.

Jane was also talking about Jeremy and Julie - nothing to do with Sheila - Do keep up!
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Offline lookout

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Re: Perjury that went unchallenged at trial.
« Reply #214 on: November 13, 2019, 05:51:PM »
Jane was also talking about Jeremy and Julie - nothing to do with Sheila - Do keep up!





 ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

Offline ILB

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Re: Perjury that went unchallenged at trial.
« Reply #215 on: November 13, 2019, 07:43:PM »
How many times in the heat of the moment have we said things we regret saying, a phrase springs to mind, Loose Tongue,  you then play it down or cover it up, in Bambers case he went for the McDonald story?
to be fair though this is not a heat of moment scenario is it. Look at it from a Jeremy Bamber is gulity perspective. He has been planning the massacre and has been gearing himself up for it. He is ready for his money. And he wants to have everything. Why would he jepordise is by even telling someone, even if it were his girlfriend. Even if she never went to the police, and he got away with it. He would never have a decent night's sleep again. Forever scared, that should he step a foot wrong, Julie mugford would drop him in it. I believe if Bamber is guilty he would have never told a soul. He isn't that stupid.
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Offline ILB

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Re: Perjury that went unchallenged at trial.
« Reply #216 on: November 13, 2019, 07:49:PM »
You can argue that Jeremy would know he would be believed, after all he had the perfect fall person. His sister, who was mentally ill. Had been having treatment, why from his perspective would he fuck it all up by bragging about it? When all he had to do is remain quiet and then everything would fall into place for him? This is why I decline to believe Julie mugford. Coupled with her own actions post the massacre in the early stages. I know people have said to me that people react differently but I just don't buy it. Especially when it involves something of this horrific magnitude
« Last Edit: November 13, 2019, 07:50:PM by ilovebooze »
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Offline Caroline

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Re: Perjury that went unchallenged at trial.
« Reply #217 on: November 13, 2019, 08:00:PM »
to be fair though this is not a heat of moment scenario is it. Look at it from a Jeremy Bamber is gulity perspective. He has been planning the massacre and has been gearing himself up for it. He is ready for his money. And he wants to have everything. Why would he jepordise is by even telling someone, even if it were his girlfriend. Even if she never went to the police, and he got away with it. He would never have a decent night's sleep again. Forever scared, that should he step a foot wrong, Julie mugford would drop him in it. I believe if Bamber is guilty he would have never told a soul. He isn't that stupid.

He may have initially just stated his thoughts out loud, with no real intention It was quite some time before mentioning it and carrying it out.
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Offline ILB

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Re: Perjury that went unchallenged at trial.
« Reply #218 on: November 13, 2019, 08:07:PM »
He may have initially just stated his thoughts out loud, with no real intention It was quite some time before mentioning it and carrying it out.
Caroline. By Julie's own account he had told her he had been on the tractor all day, thinking and planning about killing his family that very night, to quote Julie he said " tonight's the night" if we are to go by what Julie says is true, he was singing like a canary hours before committing the dreadful act.... Jeremy isn't an idiot, why cockily do something like this knowing it could fall back upon him...
« Last Edit: November 13, 2019, 08:08:PM by ilovebooze »
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Offline Jane

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Re: Perjury that went unchallenged at trial.
« Reply #219 on: November 13, 2019, 08:09:PM »
You can argue that Jeremy would know he would be believed, after all he had the perfect fall person. His sister, who was mentally ill. Had been having treatment, why from his perspective would he fuck it all up by bragging about it? When all he had to do is remain quiet and then everything would fall into place for him? This is why I decline to believe Julie mugford. Coupled with her own actions post the massacre in the early stages. I know people have said to me that people react differently but I just don't buy it. Especially when it involves something of this horrific magnitude
to be fair though this is not a heat of moment scenario is it. Look at it from a Jeremy Bamber is gulity perspective. He has been planning the massacre and has been gearing himself up for it. He is ready for his money. And he wants to have everything. Why would he jepordise is by even telling someone, even if it were his girlfriend. Even if she never went to the police, and he got away with it. He would never have a decent night's sleep again. Forever scared, that should he step a foot wrong, Julie mugford would drop him in it. I believe if Bamber is guilty he would have never told a soul. He isn't that stupid.


I think you're missing the entire point. I believe Jeremy believed himself to be untouchable. He probably thought he had a great enough hold on Julie for her to keep her mouth shut. What he told her pulled her still further into his world. If she HAD said anything, she risked her entire future. After all, SHE'D been on a fraudulent spending spree. SHE'D provided him with sleeping pills to sedate his father. SHE'D kept lookout when he robbed family property. SHE was privy to a dreadful secret.

Offline ILB

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Re: Perjury that went unchallenged at trial.
« Reply #220 on: November 13, 2019, 08:17:PM »

I think you're missing the entire point. I believe Jeremy believed himself to be untouchable. He probably thought he had a great enough hold on Julie for her to keep her mouth shut. What he told her pulled her still further into his world. If she HAD said anything, she risked her entire future. After all, SHE'D been on a fraudulent spending spree. SHE'D provided him with sleeping pills to sedate his father. SHE'D kept lookout when he robbed family property. SHE was privy to a dreadful secret.
entire future? Why would she want to spend her entire future with a psychopath and a child killer, by painting Julie in this light you are painting her as being as financially ruthless as Bamber himself and do no favour for her moral high ground " respectable caught up innocent girl scenario" and as for referencing the caravan Park break in and cheque fraud. It is laughable, respectfully. How important are those incidents, parallaed with five counts of murder ( including two innocent little boys asleep in their beds) there was no way whatsoever and further more for to Julie to even fear that she would be implicated with Bamber in these five murders. She was not a part of any conspiracy with him. There isn't an excuse.
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Offline Caroline

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Re: Perjury that went unchallenged at trial.
« Reply #221 on: November 13, 2019, 08:18:PM »
Caroline. By Julie's own account he had told her he had been on the tractor all day, thinking and planning about killing his family that very night, to quote Julie he said " tonight's the night" if we are to go by what Julie says is true, he was singing like a canary hours before committing the dreadful act.... Jeremy isn't an idiot, why cockily do something like this knowing it could fall back upon him...

He talked about killing them long before that and no, he's not an idiot, but he is arrogant. I doubt he thought Julie would betray him and that his plan was air tight.
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Offline Steve_uk

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Re: Perjury that went unchallenged at trial.
« Reply #222 on: November 13, 2019, 08:23:PM »
JB can't be blamed for coercive/controlled behaviour towards JM as he was too busy flitting about from one woman to another so was never the " steady boyfriend ". It was when Sheila had moved to London that JB was beginning to feel his feet and the grass was looking a lot greener there than in the insular environment of where he was.
He'd obviously enjoyed the party atmosphere that was London and probably what went on in his mind was the continuing boredom of a relationship that was going stale.

Because of the more or less sheltered lives that both he and Sheila had led at WHF the thought of them both spreading their wings felt like a different way of life altogether which both enjoyed.
During this new found life, it was JB who'd looked after his sister, driving her home from clubs/parties. I don't know many brothers who'd look out for their sisters in this way while enjoying themselves ?

A psychopath would just let them get on with it----being void of any feelings etc and would continue to do what they wanted as is a psychopath's nature, selfish and uncaring.
We don't know the enjoyment that JB had while JM was out of sight ! if JB had had eyes for JM I'm almost certain that he would have got engaged to her, but he wasn't interested and apart from the fact that June never got on with her that relationship was fizzling out before the murders ever took place and JB was looking for a way out.

His chance came when he got that phone-call while JM was in his presence and that pretty well marked the end of the relationship.
At 24 it's not a hanging offence to end a relationship. If JB was as bad as he's been painted why was JM hanging on to him for grim death ? Why was she so furious with him and wanting to suffocate him ? 
Girls/young women are renowned for throwing all kinds of " tantrums " and acts of revenge after a split, you read about these things every day and this is exactly what JM did during her stand as a prosecution witness-----which she did very well until it came to her being questioned about the man she'd once loved and she couldn't speak through the tears after realising what she'd done !
This is well-written lookout but inaccurate. It's true Jeremy was the one with the car and Sheila couldn't drive, and maybe he did take her home on occasions when his judgement wasn't affected by cannabis or alcohol. But after her illness in 1983 I think he began to see his sister as a liability, someone whom he didn't want to be seen with at parties, and whom he began to pity. Remember in his mind these were mercy killings, as well as justifying to himself that Colin would be able to obtain full-time work once the twins were out of the way. These thought processes really are the product of a diseased mind.

As for Julie, why did she stick with him for so long, listening to his insane rantings on the subject of killing five people, by his side at the funerals, and as you say only when it was clear Jeremy was going to date other women did she snap?  Did she think she was entitled to some reward for her silence, did she turn down the offer of manageress of a wine bar in a fashionable area of town, why had she not become pregnant by him if she really wanted to hook him or was otherwise purely interested in the material aspect of their relationship?

I think that she did love him, she was a martyr to his every wish, she was available for him at all times sexually, she did his washing, decorated Bourtree Cottage. She wanted desperately to believe he wasn't behind the murders, that somehow Matthew had misunderstood instructions, that it was all a ghastly mistake, until she saw the carcasses themselves laid out on the slab and the curtain descended, until the admission at Blazer's restaurant, Blackheath that there was something wrong with him, that she realized she had to get away from Bourtree Cottage and its associations, that after the murders there really was no future for them, because powerful an emotion as love is, it just wasn't enough..
« Last Edit: November 13, 2019, 08:24:PM by Steve_uk »

Offline Caroline

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Re: Perjury that went unchallenged at trial.
« Reply #223 on: November 13, 2019, 08:26:PM »
entire future? Why would she want to spend her entire future with a psychopath and a child killer, by painting Julie in this light you are painting her as being as financially ruthless as Bamber himself and do no favour for her moral high ground " respectable caught up innocent girl scenario" and as for referencing the caravan Park break in and cheque fraud. It is laughable, respectfully. How important are those incidents, parallaed with five counts of murder ( including two innocent little boys asleep in their beds) there was no way whatsoever and further more for to Julie to even fear that she would be implicated with Bamber in these five murders. She was not a part of any conspiracy with him. There isn't an excuse.

I agree, it would be impossible to live your life with that hanging over you head. However, she didn't - she came forward. In another case Lesley Stewart kept quiet for nearly 10 years armed with the knowledge that he partner, Robert Temple, killed his wife.

http://www.lifedaily.com/story/10-years-later-florida-woman-sheds-new-light-on-unsolved-cold-case/
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Offline Steve_uk

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Re: Perjury that went unchallenged at trial.
« Reply #224 on: November 13, 2019, 08:27:PM »
to be fair though this is not a heat of moment scenario is it. Look at it from a Jeremy Bamber is gulity perspective. He has been planning the massacre and has been gearing himself up for it. He is ready for his money. And he wants to have everything. Why would he jepordise is by even telling someone, even if it were his girlfriend. Even if she never went to the police, and he got away with it. He would never have a decent night's sleep again. Forever scared, that should he step a foot wrong, Julie mugford would drop him in it. I believe if Bamber is guilty he would have never told a soul. He isn't that stupid.
Because she'd been a doormat for almost two years and he thought he had her under his thumb.