Perjury that went unchallenged at trial.

[ILB]

Adam, regarding shelias nightdress. You might be able to answer me this. Is it still kept in storage or was it destroyed sometime after October 1986..

[David1819]

Here is some evidence. Sources in capitals. Most not disputed by the CT.

1. Perfectly clean palm of hands on Sheila - Not disputed - COA

2. One blood mark on back of hand of Sheila - Not disputed - COA

3. Extremley low levels of lead found on hands on Sheila.  Not consistent with handling a rifle. Significantly higher traces expected - Not disputed - COA, BAMBER'S DEFENCE.

4. Well manicured nails on Sheila - Not disputed - COA.

5. No broken nails - Not disputed COA.

6. Nails in tact - Not disputed - COA.

7. No marks or indentations on Sheila's fingers - Not disputed - COA.

8. No blood on finger tips - Not disputed - COA.

9. No dirt on finger tips - Not disputed - COA.

10. No powder on finger tips - Not disputed - COA.

11. Sheila's time limits - Not disputed - POLICE, BAMBER.

12. No trace of any lead dust coating on Sheila - Not disputed - COA.

13. No traces of the lubricant from re loading twice - Not disputed - COA

14. Very clean feet - Disputed with one picture of foot with redness - COA.

15. Feet free from significant blood staining - Disputed with one picture of foot with redness - COA.

16. Bamber doing nothing between 3.10am - 3.26/36am - Not disputed - BAMBER

17. No debris such as sugar on feet - Not disputed - COA.

18. No foot injuries after bare footed aggressive movement around big house & brutal fight - Not disputed - PHOTOGRAPHS, PATHOLOGIST.

19. Only Sheila Caffell's blood on nightdress - Not disputed - COA.

20. No presence of firearm residue on nightdress - Not disputed - COA.

21. No trace of rifle oil on nightdress - Not disputed - COA.

22. No mention of nightdress damage from agressive movement and brutal kitchen fight - Not disputed - COA.

23. No facial injuries on Sheila - Not disputed - PHOTOGRAPHS, PATHOLOGIST.

24. Sheila avoiding kitchen fight injuries with no body or face protection - Not disputed - FORUM.

25. Nevill's massive height/weight advantage over Sheila - Not disputed - ACCEPTED FACT.

26. Impossibility of shower removing evidence off Sheila - Not disputed - SCIENTIFIC FACT.

27. Impossibility of Sheila showering after killing herself - Not disputed - SCIENTIFIC FACT.

28. Nevill being found bare footed in pyjamas suggesting had just got out of bed - Not disputed - PHOTOS.

29. Sheila being found bare footed in pyjamas suggesting she had just got out of bed - Not disputed - PHOTOS.

30. Paint in silencer - Not disputed but suggestion from Bamber cousins did this - NUMEROUS SOURCES. .

31. Aga scratch's - Not disputed but suggestion from Bamber cousins did this - NUMEROUS SOURCES.

32. Blood in silencer - Not disputed but suggestion from Bamber cousins did this - NUMEROUS SOURCES.

33. No blood in the rifle end - Not disputed - NUMEROUS SOURCES.

34. Sheila's legs pulled after second shot - Not disputed - COA.

35. Blood underneath the bible - Not disputed - COA.

36. A lot of blood on Nevill's side of the bed - Not disputed - PHOTOGRAPHS.

37. Large scale multiple mental & physical effects of Haloperidol - Not disputed. - INTERNET ARTICLES, YOUTUBE.

38. Sheila having Haloperidol in her body - Not disputed - COA.

39. Sheila's condition hours before the massacre - Not disputed. Bamber being a main witness - BAMBER & OTHER PEOPLE.

40. Sheila under sedation - Not disputed - COA.

41. Easy window entrance into WHF - Not disputed. Agreed by Bamber. - BAMBER.

42. Shutting kitchen window from outside - Disputed in 2017 but 20 independent sources prove otherwise - 20 SOURCES IN THE LIBRARY.

43. No better massacre weapon options for Bamber - Not disputed - FORUM.

44. Professor Herbert Leon Mcdonell - Not disputed after Bamber hired him - WILKES'S BOOK.

45. Easy bike routes to WHF - Not disputed - NUMEROUS SOURCES.

46. Bike brought to Bamber's cottage just before the massacre - Not disputed - BAMBERS POLICE INTERVIEWS.

47. June not waking or getting woken by Nevill - Not disputed - COA.

48. Nevill's back burns - Not disputed. Suggestion burns were caused minus silencer rejected - BAMBER, TONIGHT PROGRAMME.

49. 2012 CCRC court judgement - judicial review request made & rejected - JUDICIAL REVIEW DOCUMENT.

50. The twins not waking - Not disputed - NUMEROUS SOURCES.

51. Bamber's call to the police - Not disputed - NUMEROUS SOURCES.

52. Nevill's horrific injuries - Not disputed - COURT OF APPEAL.

53. Sheila's time limits - Not disputed - POLICE STATEMENTS.

54. No valid Sheila scenario - Not disputed - OS & FORUM.

55. Bamber's 3am call to Julie - Not disputed - BAMBER.

56. Nevill's 2/4 second call to Bamber - Not disputed - BAMBER.

57. Bamber asking the police to pick him up - Not disputed - WILKES, CRIMES, HEARTS & CORONETS.

58. Nevill's back burns - Not disputed - BAMBER.

59. Ease for a man to lift & carry a woman - Not disputed. YOUTUBE VIDEO.

60. Crime scenes of 5 individuals - Not disputed - COA. 

61. Bamber's found hacksaw - Not disputed - BAMBER.

62. Bible on Sheila's arm- Not disputed - PHOTOGRAPHS.

63. Only execution period available to Bamber, 12am - 3am - Not disputed - BAMBER

64. Housekeeper evidence of items around the sink being moved - Not disputed- PB WS, WILKES'S BOOK

65. Only Sheila receiving a contact shot in a location that produces back splatter- Not disputed, COA.

66. Bloodied plam print on Sheila's nightdress - Not disputed. COA.

67. Nevill being lifted onto a coal scuttle - CRIME SCENE PICTURES. 

68. Dried blood on Sheila - PATHOLOGIST

Ah the old gish gallop when times get hard.


"The Gish gallop is a technique used during debating that focuses on overwhelming an opponent with as many arguments as possible, without regard for accuracy or strength of the arguments."

https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Gish_Gallop

[Adam]

Adam, regarding shelias nightdress. You might be able to answer me this. Is it still kept in storage or was it destroyed sometime after October 1986..

I do not know.

[Jane]

but to you does it seem the diary of an average soon to be 22 year old women? Or does it seem much more a scripted account? Armed with this knowledge what she eventually came forward about. Why was she even with Bamber??

They seem very like the notes I took. You forget that Julie wasn't just "an average soon to be 22 year old woman". She was highly intelligent. She'd been to some of the best girls' schools before going to university and was currently doing a second degree.

[David1819]

Adam, regarding shelias nightdress. You might be able to answer me this. Is it still kept in storage or was it destroyed sometime after October 1986..

The prosecutions firearm "expert" already admitted that his comments on the nightdress was meaningless.

"Mr M.D Fletcher Cross Examined

Q: You postulated Mr. Fletcher, didn't you, that if the wounds were self-inflicted, the wounds to Mrs. Caffell, you would have expected to find traces of oil and firearms discharge on the front of her nightdress?

A: I did qualify that by saying if the wounds were self-inflicted, using a rifle held close to the body.

Q: You obviously worked out the approximate angles of fire, as explored?

A: I had looked at some possible angles of fire yes.
 
Q: You had seen the X-rays.

A: I am sorry I misunderstood. I thought you meant the ways of holding the gun rather than the track of the bullet. I beg your pardon, I see now yes.

Q: I think you have seen the sketches that we have put forward, which are agreed, yes?

A: Yes I have.

Q: Number 1 on the sketch is the contact wound.

A: Yes sir.

Q: With the gun held pointing at that angle would you expect residue on the nightdress.

A: You could certainly position the head and gun so that it would be possible to get residue on the nightdress.

Q: The point is surely Mr. Fletcher that it doesn't make any difference whatsoever whether the wound is self-inflicted or inflicted by anybody else, if the gun is held at a particular angle you might get residue on the nightdress?

A: If held in the correct position certainly. Close to the body at the correct angle for the projection of the bullet in the head.

Q: Why is that correct?

A: To fulfil the requirements for the residue to get on to the nightdress.

Q: It doesn't help us to be certain whether they were self-inflicted or inflicted by another person, does it?

A: It does give a particular set of circumstances. I am trying to tell you what I would expect to find. If some of those circumstances don't occur or were incorrect then my finding, are, as you say, not valid.

Q: Forgive me, I am probably being extremely stupid. Does it help at all? What I am suggesting to you is that it didn't help us at all in deciding whether the wounds were self-inflicted or not self-inflicted. The gun would have had to be in a particular angle to the body in order to deliver the wound in the direction it is in,in either case.

A: Yes. "

[ILB]

I do not know.

ok thank you. So this garment was tested in 85,86 when both you and I know that DNA, forensic testing was in its infancy stages???

[Adam]

ok thank you. So this garment was tested in 85,86 when both you and I know that DNA, forensic testing was in its infancy stages???

DNA is nothing to do with firearm residue. Sheila fired 27 shots. So would have a lot.

[Adam]

Obviously there is too much circumstantial evidence to list.

The main things being Jeremy is the only alive suspect with several motives, an opportunity and no alibi. His closest friend, Julie Mugford testified against him.

[ILB]

DNA is nothing to do with firearm residue. Sheila fired 27 shots. So would have a lot.

that is not what I asked. Was it still in its infancy?

[ILB]

Obviously there is too much circumstantial evidence to list.

The main things being Jeremy is the only alive suspect with several motives, an opportunity and no alibi. His closest friend, Julie Mugford testified against him.

how credible is mugford to you adam.?

[David1819]

Obviously there is too much circumstantial evidence to list.

Adam 95% of what you have listed is nothing but crap.

For example.

- You list Herbert leon Mcdonell despite him now saying he thinks Sheila could have shot herself.

- You mention a youtube clip of a guy carrying a woman.  lol

- You list blood by Nevills bed and omit the fact that it was Junes blood.

[Adam]

how credible is mugford to you adam.?

100%. She would not dare perjure herself on something so serious.

[ILB]

100%. She would not dare perjure herself on something so serious.

why does she not voice her concerns from the outset ?

[Jane]

why does she not voice her concerns from the outset ?

The question is rhetoric. No one here, unless they were privy to her thoughts at the time, is capable of giving other than their opinion, which from memory, you've usually chosen to deride.

[Adam]

Adam 95% of what you have listed is nothing but crap.

For example.

- You list Herbert leon Mcdonell despite him now saying he thinks Sheila could have shot herself.

- You mention a youtube clip of a guy carrying a woman.  lol

- You list blood by Nevills bed and omit the fact that it was Junes blood.

All points have been discussed before. Most have there own threads.

You changed stance from hardcore guilter to passionate supporter. Based on your theory that the relatives used wet period blood on the silencer.