Five Magic Bullets

[Caroline]

This may be why the bullets were removed

https://www.luckygunner.com/lounge/why-and-how-to-rotate-ammo/

Inspection Considerations: What To Look For
You should inspect your ammunition occasionally. When I pull the rounds out of my gun, I am looking for some specific indicators that it should be replaced. First, I’m going to look at the bullet itself. Some discoloration from handling is normal, but alterations in the shape of the bullet are not. Did it get slammed into the feed ramp and is now misshapen as a result? This is probably a good indicator that the whole cartridge has suffered some abuse, and the change in shape may impact the bullet’s performance. If the bullet is deformed, replace those rounds.

[Caroline]

This may be why the bullets were removed and reloaded

https://www.luckygunner.com/lounge/why-and-how-to-rotate-ammo/

Inspection Considerations: What To Look For
You should inspect your ammunition occasionally. When I pull the rounds out of my gun, I am looking for some specific indicators that it should be replaced. First, I’m going to look at the bullet itself. Some discoloration from handling is normal, but alterations in the shape of the bullet are not. Did it get slammed into the feed ramp and is now misshapen as a result? This is probably a good indicator that the whole cartridge has suffered some abuse, and the change in shape may impact the bullet’s performance. If the bullet is deformed, replace those rounds.

But he must have done because there were 6 not 5. One was still on the counter top, the others were fired from the rifle.

Here is Jones's account of Jeremy being asked about it.

[Kaldin]

According to Mr Fletcher, there were four bullets which had been loaded twice and which had been fired, and one which was still on the kitchen surface.

If these five bullets were still in the magazine prior to the murders, Jeremy or Sheila must have removed them from the magazine and put them with the new bullets. I'm curious as to why.

[Caroline]

According to Mr Fletcher, there were four bullets which had been loaded twice and which had been fired, and one which was still on the kitchen surface.

If these five bullets were still in the magazine prior to the murders, Jeremy or Sheila must have removed them from the magazine and put them with the new bullets. I'm curious as to why.

Actually, according to Fletcher, there were 6 not 4.

I see you have added Sheila into the mix, however, it was Jeremy who said the magazine was empty - where and why would Sheila get five bullets from?

[ILB]

This is something that I believe Scipio first mentioned - at the time, I didn't take too much notice but having thought about it, it's pretty damming!

On 9th August 1985, Taff and Stan Jones called to see Jeremy, in a bid to put Stan's mind at rest Re: Jeremy being involved. Jeremy was asked about the sights and the moderator and was also asked about the bullets left on the counter top. As we know, there were 25 rounds used in the murders, Jeremy said he had grabbed a box of ammo just after spotting the rabbits (the box contained 50 rounds), he loaded 8-10 bullets into the EMPTY magazine clip, all the while RUSHING because he wanted to get the rabbits. All sounds fairly straight forward and with some simply maths you should be able to work out that from a box of 50 bullets with 25 used (none were used to shoot the rabbits), there should be 25 left on the counter. However, there were 30 - where did the 5 extra bullets come from?

There must have been 5 bullets already in the magazine. Jeremy probably didn't think this important initially, however, it's gets complicated when you filter in the rabbit story and his haste to shoot them. If he was in a hurry to shoot the rabbits, why did he need to fill the clip when there was 5 bullets already loaded? After all, he was in a hurry! He also states clearly that the magazine was empty but that no shots were fired at the rabbits. The story doesn't compute - it's a pity we don't have Taff Jones's witness statement because it was he who documented that there were 30 rounds left on the counter - this should have been pursued!

complete cherry picking...

[Kaldin]

Actually, according to Fletcher, there were 6 not 4.

I see you have added Sheila into the mix, however, it was Jeremy who said the magazine was empty - where and why would Sheila get five bullets from?

I have Fletcher saying there were five.

http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,7638.msg362440.html#msg362440

Jeremy said he thought it was empty, according to Stan Jones. Perhaps it wasn't. However, that doesn't explain why the bullets were removed from the magazine prior to loading it. That applies to Sheila as well.

The other alternative is that the five bullets were not in the magazine, they were in the gun cupboard or wherever. The mystery of why Jeremy would find another five applies to Sheila too.

[David1819]

The other alternative is that the five bullets were not in the magazine, they were in the gun cupboard or wherever. The mystery of why Jeremy would find another five applies to Sheila too.

She goes to the cupboard to collected five bullets as that was where they were kept. Only noticing or recalling there being another source of ammo on kitchen worktop later on.  No mystery.

As for several bullets being loaded twice into the magazine. This is determined by the impressions left on the bullet when they are pressed down on the lips of the magazine. I believe it could be possible that one could press down with enough force to create the lip impressions but not enough force to get the bullet past the lip marks into the magazine. Hence it could just be a case of someone having difficulty loading as the force needed gets greater the more you load. But this is just a theory at present.

[lookout]

If the magazine was already loaded it would have had to have taken someone with no knowledge of loading to attempt a few more bullets, but it would have meant breaking all of Sheila's nails in the process.
Jeremy would have had no need to mess around with loose bullets as he'd have got the full quota with knowing about the workings etc of the rifle.

[Kaldin]

She goes to the cupboard to collected five bullets as that was where they were kept. Only noticing or recalling there being another source of ammo on kitchen worktop later on.  No mystery.

As for several bullets being loaded twice into the magazine. This is determined by the impressions left on the bullet when they are pressed down on the lips of the magazine. I believe it could be possible that one could press down with enough force to create the lip impressions but not enough force to get the bullet past the lip marks into the magazine. Hence it could just be a case of someone having difficulty loading as the force needed gets greater the more you load. But this is just a theory at present.

That's a possible scenario - five bullets for five people.

I'm not sure how a magazine is loaded - I'll see if I can find a video or something. In any case, in that scenario, at least one bullet which was not successfully loaded was removed and not loaded again.

[Caroline]

complete cherry picking...

Says the king of the cherries! 

[Caroline]

That's a possible scenario - five bullets for five people.

I'm not sure how a magazine is loaded - I'll see if I can find a video or something. In any case, in that scenario, at least one bullet which was not successfully loaded was removed and not loaded again.

This must be a joke! Something clearly went wrong with that plan! Sheila didn't load any bullets, Bamber brought the bullets, Bamber and the magazine which was already partially loaded - he removed the bullets (for whatever reason) and reloaded. Trying to fit Sheila into THIS mix is cloud cuckoo land!

[Caroline]

I have Fletcher saying there were five.

http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,7638.msg362440.html#msg362440

Jeremy said he thought it was empty, according to Stan Jones. Perhaps it wasn't. However, that doesn't explain why the bullets were removed from the magazine prior to loading it. That applies to Sheila as well.

The other alternative is that the five bullets were not in the magazine, they were in the gun cupboard or wherever. The mystery of why Jeremy would find another five applies to Sheila too.

No and it doesn't explain why he needed to load bullets in a partially loaded rifle when by HIS OWN WORDS, he was in a RUSH to shoot the rabbits!

[Caroline]

I have Fletcher saying there were five.

http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,7638.msg362440.html#msg362440

No, he said there were six! One full bullet left on the counter and 5 used cases. Bamber not Sheila has to have unloaded and reloaded because one of the bullets had to have come from the new pack! Also, Bamber gave his statement very soon after the murders and you're trying to say he didn't remember that the magazine was partially loaded? Please!

[Caroline]

If the magazine was already loaded it would have had to have taken someone with no knowledge of loading to attempt a few more bullets, but it would have meant breaking all of Sheila's nails in the process.
Jeremy would have had no need to mess around with loose bullets as he'd have got the full quota with knowing about the workings etc of the rifle.

It wasn't loaded, it was partially loaded, enough to shoot some rabbits, not enough to kill the family!

[Kaldin]

This must be a joke! Something clearly went wrong with that plan! Sheila didn't load any bullets, Bamber brought the bullets, Bamber and the magazine which was already partially loaded - he removed the bullets (for whatever reason) and reloaded. Trying to fit Sheila into THIS mix is cloud cuckoo land!

I'm looking at the possibility of either of them doing it.

For what reason did he unload the bullets? Can you think of a valid reason he did that?

You think he brought the bullets with him, but not the magazine? Why would he need to bring his own bullets?