Author Topic: The ITV Drama  (Read 234753 times)

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Offline Steve_uk

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Re: The ITV Drama
« Reply #2445 on: February 16, 2020, 08:30:PM »
Yes. Valerie Storie identified Hanratty as the perpetrator . The same guy who’s semen was found in her underwear after later DNA tests.   

Only Steve_uk would find this a “difficult case to fathom”  ;D
It's a very difficult case to fathom, and an exception I made many years ago. I could discuss the case all night with you here if you wish. There would have to be a conspiracy against Hanratty, admittedly, but haven't we had enough of those in the past not to dismiss the idea out of hand? https://catholicherald.co.uk/magazine/a-reasonable-doubt/

Offline Reader

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Re: The ITV Drama
« Reply #2446 on: February 16, 2020, 08:31:PM »
Alphon made a confession that he retracted only some years later.

Offline Steve_uk

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Re: The ITV Drama
« Reply #2447 on: February 16, 2020, 08:32:PM »
The internet is snail-pace slow tonight.

Offline David1819

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Re: The ITV Drama
« Reply #2448 on: February 16, 2020, 08:47:PM »
It seems unlike Julie Mugford, Valerie Storie told the truth. Also unlike Julie Mugford, Valerie Storie gave everything she earned from the crime to charity.

From wiki -
Valerie Storie was quoted as saying "I identified the guilty man. I looked in his eyes and he looked in mine. I knew who he was and he knew that I recognised him. I had found the guilty person."[43]

Following the DNA evidence in 2002, Storie earned over £40,000 for her participation in various TV and newspaper documentaries. All of this money was anonymously donated to Slough Mobility Transport for the purchase of two new vehicles, one of which was named 'Valerie'

Offline Steve_uk

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Re: The ITV Drama
« Reply #2449 on: February 16, 2020, 08:50:PM »
Alphon made a confession that he retracted only some years later.
Yes he did Reader. As I say I have changed my mind since, which should please David1819 and others, but not because of the DNA evidence. Peter Louis Alphon was the alternative perpetrator. I suggest that he may have been paid to carry out the murders or did them willingly to discourage the growing promiscuity of the period, that he was an inexperienced car driver, that he planted the spent cartridge cases at the Vienna Hotel but became remorseful after Hanratty's hanging. He was reported to have been in the same public house as Gregsten and Storie that same evening, but I can't remember if anyone confirmed this.
« Last Edit: February 16, 2020, 08:52:PM by Steve_uk »

Offline Steve_uk

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Re: The ITV Drama
« Reply #2450 on: February 16, 2020, 08:51:PM »
It seems unlike Julie Mugford, Valerie Storie told the truth. Also unlike Julie Mugford, Valerie Storie gave everything she earned from the crime to charity.

From wiki -
Valerie Storie was quoted as saying "I identified the guilty man. I looked in his eyes and he looked in mine. I knew who he was and he knew that I recognised him. I had found the guilty person."[43]

Following the DNA evidence in 2002, Storie earned over £40,000 for her participation in various TV and newspaper documentaries. All of this money was anonymously donated to Slough Mobility Transport for the purchase of two new vehicles, one of which was named 'Valerie'

She told the truth as she saw it. The case is complicated so stop trying to make it a simple one.

Offline David1819

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Re: The ITV Drama
« Reply #2451 on: February 16, 2020, 08:55:PM »
Peter Louis Alphon was an attention seeker who admitted to many things he never actually done. Unlike Hanratty - He was not identified by victim. Nor was his DNA found on the gun or the victims underwear.  ::)

Offline Steve_uk

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Re: The ITV Drama
« Reply #2452 on: February 16, 2020, 09:01:PM »
Peter Louis Alphon was an attention seeker who admitted to many things he never actually done. Unlike Hanratty - He was not identified by victim. Nor was his DNA found on the gun or the victims underwear.  ::)
Well as I say I have dismissed the DNA evidence as it could have been planted by the Establishment's security services. Alphon was a good suspect, he had a large sum of money in his bank account post-murders and had confessed to the crime.

However I reiterate that I have changed my mind now.

Offline Reader

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Re: The ITV Drama
« Reply #2453 on: February 16, 2020, 09:49:PM »
Murders? There was only one.

Offline Steve_uk

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Re: The ITV Drama
« Reply #2454 on: February 16, 2020, 09:52:PM »
Murders? There was only one.
Yes sorry it was obviously one murder and one attempted murder.

Offline David1819

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Re: The ITV Drama
« Reply #2455 on: February 17, 2020, 02:22:PM »
I don't see how you can really argue with this.

"Mr Michael Sherrard apparently opened the defence at the trial by saying appositely that this was a case “sagging with coincidences”. Just let us consider some of the more striking coincidences in the light of the DNA evidence if Hanratty was not guilty. He was wrongly identified by 3 witnesses at identification parades; first as the person at the scene of the crime and secondly (by 2 witnesses) driving a vehicle close to where the vehicle in which the murder was committed was found; he had the same identifying manner of speech as the killer; he stayed in a room the night before the crime from which bullets that had been fired from the murder weapon were recovered; the murder weapon was recovered from a place on a bus which he regarded as a hiding place and the bus followed a route he could well have used; his DNA was found on a piece of material from Storie’s knickers where it would be expected to be if the appellant was guilty; it was also found on the handkerchief found with the gun. The number of alleged coincidences means that they are not coincidences but overwhelming proof of the safety of the conviction from an evidential perspective."
« Last Edit: February 17, 2020, 02:26:PM by David1819 »

Offline Steve_uk

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Re: The ITV Drama
« Reply #2456 on: February 17, 2020, 05:23:PM »
I don't see how you can really argue with this.

"Mr Michael Sherrard apparently opened the defence at the trial by saying appositely that this was a case “sagging with coincidences”. Just let us consider some of the more striking coincidences in the light of the DNA evidence if Hanratty was not guilty. He was wrongly identified by 3 witnesses at identification parades; first as the person at the scene of the crime and secondly (by 2 witnesses) driving a vehicle close to where the vehicle in which the murder was committed was found; he had the same identifying manner of speech as the killer; he stayed in a room the night before the crime from which bullets that had been fired from the murder weapon were recovered; the murder weapon was recovered from a place on a bus which he regarded as a hiding place and the bus followed a route he could well have used; his DNA was found on a piece of material from Storie’s knickers where it would be expected to be if the appellant was guilty; it was also found on the handkerchief found with the gun. The number of alleged coincidences means that they are not coincidences but overwhelming proof of the safety of the conviction from an evidential perspective."
You see if somebody paid Peter Louis Alphon to frame James Hanratty then of course the former is going to speak in a Cockney accent (which he was well capable of simulating), he was going to follow him into the Vienna Hotel and plant cartridges in his room (why did Hanratty leave them there?), nobody recognized Hanratty that day the gun was found on the bus, Hanratty had an alibi for the day in question, though suffered from changing it midway through the trial.

Hanratty was a professional, urban thief, not a cold-blooded murderer. I'm trying to find the name of the witness who told authorities Hanratty told him he wanted to become a "stick-up man", which began to turn my mind against him. Otherwise he was not a violent criminal, nor a rapist, neither is the motive clear at all.

As for the DNA evidence, once I read Peter Wright's book "Spycatcher" in 1987 it became clear to me that the secret services are beyond the reach of government ministers and therefore democratic accountability. It would therefore not surprise me if the DNA was tampered with to make it look like Hanratty was the killer. For me this is not the decisive factor in me changing my mind, just one contributory factor.

By the way, Alphon did confess to the crime, you know..
« Last Edit: February 17, 2020, 05:24:PM by Steve_uk »

Offline David1819

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Re: The ITV Drama
« Reply #2457 on: February 17, 2020, 08:09:PM »
You see if somebody paid Peter Louis Alphon to frame James Hanratty then of course the former is going to speak in a Cockney accent (which he was well capable of simulating), he was going to follow him into the Vienna Hotel and plant cartridges in his room (why did Hanratty leave them there?), nobody recognized Hanratty that day the gun was found on the bus, Hanratty had an alibi for the day in question, though suffered from changing it midway through the trial.

Hanratty was a professional, urban thief, not a cold-blooded murderer. I'm trying to find the name of the witness who told authorities Hanratty told him he wanted to become a "stick-up man", which began to turn my mind against him. Otherwise he was not a violent criminal, nor a rapist, neither is the motive clear at all.

As for the DNA evidence, once I read Peter Wright's book "Spycatcher" in 1987 it became clear to me that the secret services are beyond the reach of government ministers and therefore democratic accountability. It would therefore not surprise me if the DNA was tampered with to make it look like Hanratty was the killer. For me this is not the decisive factor in me changing my mind, just one contributory factor.

By the way, Alphon did confess to the crime, you know..

Peter Louis Alphon was in the lineup. the victim did not choose Alphon, She chose Hanratty the same guy who's semen DNA is on her underwear from the night of the crime. 

Offline Steve_uk

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Re: The ITV Drama
« Reply #2458 on: February 18, 2020, 01:00:AM »
Peter Louis Alphon was in the lineup. the victim did not choose Alphon, She chose Hanratty the same guy who's semen DNA is on her underwear from the night of the crime.
The first identity parade Storie chose another man completely. But I agree there would have to be a massive conspiracy for Hanratty to be innocent.

Offline grahameb

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Re: The ITV Drama
« Reply #2459 on: February 18, 2020, 12:42:PM »
yes it was - and that was quite clear.

the only good thing was seeing the house re-created - that was interesting .

But they missed out so much stuff . It was unbelievable .
Another objection to the Drama is that my daughter informs me that her friend is now convinced that Bamber is guilty, not through personal investigation but just by watching the TV drama which is distinctly biased. For example someon informed me that at one point Jeremy turned from his then girlfriend and "smirked". How was he known to have smirked if he was facing away from her?
little suggestions like that are smuggled in so as to work upon one's subconscious mind.