The ITV Drama

[Jane]

That's not what I'm saying. We will never know the exact context of the conversation.

We don't even 'know' that any such conversation took place, do we?

[lookout]

If you look at the statements of the foster carers then perhaps that might give you the answer.

[Jan]

  Of course Colin would have objected if foster care had been suggested . However it was obvious fro the letter he did not hand over that there was no love lost between him and June and perhaps the family did want to have more access to the children but felt sheila needed support ? It is perfectly possible a conversation took place . I think in one of Anne eatons statements she mentioned the children being fostered as well .perhaps it did not mean fostering in the way people are assuming ? More helping sheila so the family could see the boys more ? Just throwing some ideas out there .


“:

One of the most serious acts of deception by Ainsley was over the issue of foster-care for the twins.  The fact was that Sheila had used foster care previously and it was being considered again.  Ainsley had statements made by foster carers but these were only in a hand written form and were not typed up and not produced as evidence.  None of the foster carers were called to give evidence at Trial in an attempt to undermine Jeremy and depict him as lying about the issue.

Statements from social workers were not disclosed to the DPP on the 25th September 1985 when Ainsley and colleagues pressed for murder charges to be brought against Jeremy.  The Defence did not know at the time Jeremy was charged with murder that the DPP believed Jeremy had invented the story about hearing plans for fostering discussed on the evening prior to the killings.  Det. Spt. Ainsley’s report to the DPP regarding fostering of the children states:

He goes on to state (his own capitals),

Ainsley knew with 100% certainty that Sheila had obtained help with the children in the past and had organised day foster care. Eight separate Actions were raised by Essex Police to obtain statements from ten distinct persons employed by Westminster and Camden Social services regarding the fact that Sheila had needed their help in the past.  Ainsley also had the statement from Colin Caffell’s mother who stated that she and June had talked about foster care.

The police were always desperate to portray Jeremy as a liar.  This is just one example of how Ainsley’s deliberate lies to the DPP were used to denigrate Jeremy at Court and in later appeal hearings.

[notsure]

  Of course Colin would have objected if foster care had been suggested . However it was obvious fro the letter he did not hand over that there was no love lost between him and June and perhaps the family did want to have more access to the children but felt sheila needed support ? It is perfectly possible a conversation took place . I think in one of Anne eatons statements she mentioned the children being fostered as well .perhaps it did not mean fostering in the way people are assuming ? More helping sheila so the family could see the boys more ? Just throwing some ideas out there .


“:

One of the most serious acts of deception by Ainsley was over the issue of foster-care for the twins.  The fact was that Sheila had used foster care previously and it was being considered again.  Ainsley had statements made by foster carers but these were only in a hand written form and were not typed up and not produced as evidence.  None of the foster carers were called to give evidence at Trial in an attempt to undermine Jeremy and depict him as lying about the issue.

Statements from social workers were not disclosed to the DPP on the 25th September 1985 when Ainsley and colleagues pressed for murder charges to be brought against Jeremy.  The Defence did not know at the time Jeremy was charged with murder that the DPP believed Jeremy had invented the story about hearing plans for fostering discussed on the evening prior to the killings.  Det. Spt. Ainsley’s report to the DPP regarding fostering of the children states:

He goes on to state (his own capitals),

Ainsley knew with 100% certainty that Sheila had obtained help with the children in the past and had organised day foster care. Eight separate Actions were raised by Essex Police to obtain statements from ten distinct persons employed by Westminster and Camden Social services regarding the fact that Sheila had needed their help in the past.  Ainsley also had the statement from Colin Caffell’s mother who stated that she and June had talked about foster care.

The police were always desperate to portray Jeremy as a liar.  This is just one example of how Ainsley’s deliberate lies to the DPP were used to denigrate Jeremy at Court and in later appeal hearings.

very good explanation Jan.

[lookout]

Ainsley was a great friend of RWB's. Enough said I think.

[lookout]

I wonder if the drama will show the golden handshake given to JM and the job  for Ainsley( on retirement ) as a security officer at Osea caravan site, both on the promise of a guilty verdict----and whatever else was " up the sleeve " of those who had the brass-neck to make sure JB was out of the way.

[Adam]

It is pretty obvious why Bamber told Julie someone else - MM committed the massacre.

And pretty obvious Julie would not mention MM unless Bamber had told her he had paid him.

[Jan]

very good explanation Jan.

Not my research , can’t claim that 😀

[Jan]

It is pretty obvious why Bamber told Julie someone else - MM committed the massacre.

And pretty obvious Julie would not mention MM unless Bamber had told her he had paid him.

Why is it obvious ? Why say anything at all ?

[Steve_uk]

  Of course Colin would have objected if foster care had been suggested . However it was obvious fro the letter he did not hand over that there was no love lost between him and June and perhaps the family did want to have more access to the children but felt sheila needed support ? It is perfectly possible a conversation took place . I think in one of Anne eatons statements she mentioned the children being fostered as well .perhaps it did not mean fostering in the way people are assuming ? More helping sheila so the family could see the boys more ? Just throwing some ideas out there .


“:

One of the most serious acts of deception by Ainsley was over the issue of foster-care for the twins.  The fact was that Sheila had used foster care previously and it was being considered again.  Ainsley had statements made by foster carers but these were only in a hand written form and were not typed up and not produced as evidence.  None of the foster carers were called to give evidence at Trial in an attempt to undermine Jeremy and depict him as lying about the issue.

Statements from social workers were not disclosed to the DPP on the 25th September 1985 when Ainsley and colleagues pressed for murder charges to be brought against Jeremy.  The Defence did not know at the time Jeremy was charged with murder that the DPP believed Jeremy had invented the story about hearing plans for fostering discussed on the evening prior to the killings.  Det. Spt. Ainsley’s report to the DPP regarding fostering of the children states:

He goes on to state (his own capitals),

Ainsley knew with 100% certainty that Sheila had obtained help with the children in the past and had organised day foster care. Eight separate Actions were raised by Essex Police to obtain statements from ten distinct persons employed by Westminster and Camden Social services regarding the fact that Sheila had needed their help in the past.  Ainsley also had the statement from Colin Caffell’s mother who stated that she and June had talked about foster care.

The police were always desperate to portray Jeremy as a liar.  This is just one example of how Ainsley’s deliberate lies to the DPP were used to denigrate Jeremy at Court and in later appeal hearings.

Why is this relevant to whether Jeremy Bamber killed five people or not?

[Steve_uk]

I Agree . She comes across as a shrinking violet one minute then a boyfriend smothering maniac the next .

Maybe there's a smattering of truth in both depictions.

[Steve_uk]

Good review Jan.  it’s quite unbelievable that at the start of the drama they say this is a true story

No mention of the cheque book fraud so far showing how honest she was

No mention either of Jeremy telling Liz Rimington that he would like to break into a big house in Tolleshunt D'Arcy.

[Steve_uk]

In your opinion .

You could also say ,as he did , he was a well off young man  and Sheila did not have share in a successful business did she ?

No but she stood to inherit Osea Road, which I always thought Jeremy would have preferred instead of labouring at the Farm.

[Steve_uk]

Sheila loved her father------up until he showed support towards his sick wife who'd been visiting her GP for weeks prior to the murders. Nevill had also supported the fact that June wasn't able to care for the boys and so foster care was being spoken of as well as the suggestion of Sheila being sent to convalesce.
There was to have been a " meeting " next day between the sisters June and Pamela to discuss further help for Sheila---hence the arrangement which was made the previous night by Pamela telephoning June.

 

All this is possible lookout but we just don't know. Julie said Jeremy told her he himself had instigated the subject of fostering and adoption that night as a way of unsettling Sheila. It's an indication to my mind that he (incredibly) still hadn't made up his mind one way or the other at that specific time whether to go ahead with the massacre.

[JackieD]

All this is possible lookout but we just don't know. Julie said Jeremy told her he himself had instigated the subject of fostering and adoption that night as a way of unsettling Sheila. It's an indication to my mind that he (incredibly) still hadn't made up his mind one way or the other at that specific time whether to go ahead with the massacre.

Julie said ?

Julie said she was an honest person under oath in the witness box

Steve you must be a superhuman if you can tell when Julie Mugford was luring and when she was telling the truth

Julie had a massive motive to lie about Jeremy

You cannot keep quoting Julie said when you are trying to make a valid point??

This girl was the master of deception from the cheque book fraud to the trip to the movie to the witness box

Can you please explain why Julie stated under oath she was an honest person ?