Jeremy Bamber proven innocent?

[Kaldin]

It was part of "managing" information while the police worked out how to conceal their many mistakes.

But if Nevill had rung the police, then the police didn't make a mistake - Sheila had killed them and then killed herself - as they said at first. There was no reason to suppress such a phone call from Nevill.

[Reader]

You're assuming that Sheila killed herself. What if Sheila was accidentally shot by the police?

[Jane]

Perhaps it didn't really occur to him, or he didn't think it would make a difference. It might be that he wasn't sure how serious it was. After all, it was described as a possible domestic incident wasn't it?

The idea that he thought ringing 999 would mean the police would access the farm faster doesn't make much sense to me. Even if he did think that, he couldn't have known if they could tell when the family died.

In fact, I'm surprised that he phoned the police at all. The point of it all was to make them think Sheila had done it. The fact that she was found with the gun on her would surely make them think that anyway.

You're clearly buying the phone call from Nevill, but you can't use the "He didn't think it was serious" tack when he told the police -more as an aside, and a way of reprimand for keeping him waiting, I feel- that his father had sounded "panicked"/"terrified". No, he couldn't have 'known'. He just had to do a lot of second guessing/eliminating risk to himself.

I'm surprised at your surprise that he called the police. It seems to me that this was a fine tuned plan, POSSIBLY with some basis on his belief that calls could be traced? He'd staged it like a play. It wasn't enough for him to tell police that Sheila had a history of mental illness, he had to add that she was gun competent and had handled/used most of the guns in the house. He backed up this story by leaving the gun in a position suggesting suicide.

[Kaldin]

You're clearly buying the phone call from Nevill, but you can't use the "He didn't think it was serious" tack when he told the police -more as an aside, and a way of reprimand for keeping him waiting, I feel- that his father had sounded "panicked"/"terrified". No, he couldn't have 'known'. He just had to do a lot of second guessing/eliminating risk to himself.

I'm surprised at your surprise that he called the police. It seems to me that this was a fine tuned plan, POSSIBLY with some basis on his belief that calls could be traced? He'd staged it like a play. It wasn't enough for him to tell police that Sheila had a history of mental illness, he had to add that she was gun competent and had handled/used most of the guns in the house. He backed up this story by leaving the gun in a position suggesting suicide.

He only said later on in the call to the police that his father sounded terrified. I don't suppose he expected to be on the phone for ten minutes or so. Some people don't call 999 - they call a doctor or they call the police station. I just don't read anything into it.

He didn't need to pretend Nevill had phoned him in order to tell the police all that stuff. He could have told them when they were found by someone else.

[Jane]

He only said later on in the call to the police that his father sounded terrified. I don't suppose he expected to be on the phone for ten minutes or so. Some people don't call 999 - they call a doctor or they call the police station. I just don't read anything into it.

He didn't need to pretend Nevill had phoned him in order to tell the police all that stuff. He could have told them when they were found by someone else.

EXACTLY!!! "He only said later on..........."!!! It seems that despite a call from his father at silly 'clock, telling him his sister had gone berserk and had a gun, his father's terror wasn't high on his list of conveyable priorities.

He certainly could have made that choice. It might have been an alternative. However, I imagine he may have believed all the phone calls he made gave him a reliable alibi.

[Kaldin]

EXACTLY!!! "He only said later on..........."!!! It seems that despite a call from his father at silly 'clock, telling him his sister had gone berserk and had a gun, his father's terror wasn't high on his list of conveyable priorities.

He certainly could have made that choice. It might have been an alternative. However, I imagine he may have believed all the phone calls he made gave him a reliable alibi.

Well why would he say it later on if he was guilty? I thought he wanted to delay the arrival of the police - according to some people.

The phone call didn't give him an alibi, and he must have known that. All it did was to help put the idea into the heads of the police that Sheila had done it - something they would have thought anyway after they found her with the gun laying across her.

[Jane]

Well why would he say it later on if he was guilty? I thought he wanted to delay the arrival of the police - according to some people.

The phone call didn't give him an alibi, and he must have known that. All it did was to help put the idea into the heads of the police that Sheila had done it - something they would have thought anyway after they found her with the gun laying across her.

Because he thought it was the appropriate thing to throw in? He'd already managed, very successfully, to delay the arrival of the police by waiting 25 minutes before calling them. Odd, don't you think, that he must have registered that his father had sounded panicked/terrified in order to be able to tell the police, yet he chose to wait 25 minutes before calling them?

[Kaldin]

Because he thought it was the appropriate thing to throw in? He'd already managed, very successfully, to delay the arrival of the police by waiting 25 minutes before calling them. Odd, don't you think, that he must have registered that his father had sounded panicked/terrified in order to be able to tell the police, yet he chose to wait 25 minutes before calling them?

Waiting 25 minutes after what? The alleged phone call from Nevill? That supposedly happened about 3.10, and Jeremy called the police at about 3.24. That's not 25 minutes.

I don't see why he would suddenly want the police to hurry up if he'd been delaying them.

[Jane]

Waiting 25 minutes after what? The alleged phone call from Nevill? That supposedly happened about 3.10, and Jeremy called the police at about 3.24. That's not 25 minutes.

I don't see why he would suddenly want the police to hurry up if he'd been delaying them.

So you wouldn't describe wanting haste as an appropriate reaction to a distress call, even if it's only the appearance of wanting haste? Irrespective of the time wasted being less, it's still too much. I can take on board that IF he'd received the call and the line went dead, he'd try to call back but surely getting no response would have increased his urgency rather than diminished it. I do find strange your ambivalence regarding his lack of any sense of urgency.

[Reader]

Jeremy's estimate of 03:10 was probably inaccurate, as he estimated that he called Julie at 03:25, which would have been shortly after he'd been unable to return Nevill's call. Julie initially thought that he'd called her at about 03:30.

[lookout]

So the police were allowed to get their times mixed, but not Jeremy ?

[Caroline]

You're assuming that Sheila killed herself. What if Sheila was accidentally shot by the police?

What about it? She would have been considered an armed suspect and as such, the welfare of the attending officers would have been the first concern. She wasn’t shot by the police though.

[Steve_uk]

Certainly it can. It goes a bit like this. When one first gets the script for a play there's a cold read-through, ie we just read the written words. At that time we're not 'into' the character we're hoping to play. By the time the play is staged, we're living the character we're playing. We feel what they're feeling. It seems to me that Jeremy was at the read through stage. Although it was technically correct, it lacked feeling, and the reason it lacked feeling was, because there was no phone call for him to draw on, he hadn't experienced the terror Nevill was likely to have felt HAD he felt compelled to call his son at that hour, and only remembered, at the last minute, when complaining about being kept waiting, that it might be a good thing to say his father sounded terrified.

It was the same with the funerals. Jeremy had to mimic Colin's grief because he felt none himself.

[Steve_uk]

what relevance is this? How would he be helping himself. Even if guilty it would just be delaying the inevitable. Someone at some point would access the farmhouse whether it be all guns blazing or if it was pc heartbeat and co they would call the armed response unit. He wouldn't be controlling the situation would he.

Ilovebooze why did he tell police that Sheila had trained in target practice?

[Steve_uk]

she grew up in a farming household surrounded by men who habitually went off shooting game like any other adolescent growing up in a certain environment she would have picked up the basics. It's common sense and she went on shooting holidays and knew how to handle a gun

She did not.