Author Topic: Home Office Letter, dated, 13th Jamuary 1994...  (Read 1692 times)

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Offline mike tesko

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Home Office Letter, dated, 13th Jamuary 1994...
« on: November 30, 2017, 09:28:AM »
...
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

Offline Steve_uk

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Re: Home Office Letter, dated, 13th Jamuary 1994...
« Reply #1 on: November 30, 2017, 09:38:PM »
For all you forensic experts out there what is the likelihood that a piece of flesh from Sheila's chin would stick in the sound moderator and is this an indication that it was cleaned after use?

Offline lookout

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Re: Home Office Letter, dated, 13th Jamuary 1994...
« Reply #2 on: December 01, 2017, 08:45:AM »
Nobody needs to be an expert to realise that a contact shot complete with silencer would yield bone/tissue/blood. As it would without a silencer.
Especially in Nevill's case where there would have been such materials on most of the rifle itself because of the bashing he received also.

Offline Caroline

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Re: Home Office Letter, dated, 13th Jamuary 1994...
« Reply #3 on: December 01, 2017, 11:26:AM »
Nobody needs to be an expert to realise that a contact shot complete with silencer would yield bone/tissue/blood. As it would without a silencer.
Especially in Nevill's case where there would have been such materials on most of the rifle itself because of the bashing he received also.

Well, the rifle was a low velocity weapon, there wouldn't have been an explosion of tissue from the wound to end up inside the sound mod. This is one of the reasons that I can't buy the silence theory because I just can't imagine how back spatter would be a factor for such a low velocity weapon - but I am certainly no expert!

However, as far as Nevil goes, because it is alledged he was beaten with the rifle, the story would be the same if either Jeremy OR Sheila were guity and no tissue was found on the weapon.
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Offline Adam

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Re: Home Office Letter, dated, 13th Jamuary 1994...
« Reply #4 on: December 01, 2017, 11:43:AM »
Well, the rifle was a low velocity weapon, there wouldn't have been an explosion of tissue from the wound to end up inside the sound mod. This is one of the reasons that I can't buy the silence theory because I just can't imagine how back spatter would be a factor for such a low velocity weapon - but I am certainly no expert!

However, as far as Nevil goes, because it is alledged he was beaten with the rifle, the story would be the same if either Jeremy OR Sheila were guity and no tissue was found on the weapon.

If it was not possible for there to be blood back splatter, the prosecution at trial would not have claimed the silencer blood was from contact shot back splatter. As the defence would have successfully dismissed it.

There is no record of the defence at trial disputing that contact shots from the murder weapon produce blood back splatter.

There is also no dispute from the defence that one of Sheila's shots was a contact shot.

The location where Sheila was shot also increased the chances of back splatter. A neck shot will produce a lot more instant blood than a leg shot.
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Offline Caroline

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Re: Home Office Letter, dated, 13th Jamuary 1994...
« Reply #5 on: December 01, 2017, 11:50:AM »
If it was not possible for there to be blood back splatter, the prosecution at trial would not have claimed the silencer blood was from contact shot back splatter. As the defence would have successfully dismissed it.

There is no record of the defence at trial disputing that contact shots from the murder weapon produce blood back splatter.

There is also no dispute from the defence that one of Sheila's shots was a contact shot.

The location where Sheila was shot also increased the chances of back splatter. A neck shot will produce a lot more instant blood than a leg shot.

I didn't say it wasn't possible - of course it's possible. Due to the low velocity of the weapon, there wouldn't be an explosion of flesh and so the bleeding wouldn't be 'that' insant. I think (although again, I am no expert), there would at least be some time elapse (even if only a fraction) between the shot and the release of blood which would lessen the chances of back spatter.
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Offline mike tesko

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Re: Home Office Letter, dated, 13th Jamuary 1994...
« Reply #6 on: December 01, 2017, 12:06:PM »
Well, the rifle was a low velocity weapon, there wouldn't have been an explosion of tissue from the wound to end up inside the sound mod. This is one of the reasons that I can't buy the silence theory because I just can't imagine how back spatter would be a factor for such a low velocity weapon - but I am certainly no expert!

However, as far as Nevil goes, because it is alledged he was beaten with the rifle, the story would be the same if either Jeremy OR Sheila were guity and no tissue was found on the weapon.

Keith Mallinsons report advocated that the inner lining of the anshuzt rifles barrell might reveal traces of Sheila's and the other victims bloods, and possibly human tissue concealed underneath and in-between the rifling design therein, which if tested properly (scientifically, and not merely like running a cloth through the length of the barrel as Fletcher had done) could help determine whether the silencer was fitted to the barrel of the rifle at the time any of the victims had been shot?

The type of test which Mallinsons suggested be carried out on the inner lining surface areas of the barrel including the rifling cavities, that he proposed in 2003 / 2004 can still be carried out today, using modern DNA technology...

I think it's Bambers best bet, because although he has many potential grounds and avenues of appeal, any fresh evidence which came to light as a result of Mallinsons theory could not be challenged for a number of obvious reasons which I can go into later on...

I say, do the Mallinsons tests now, let's put the silencer evidence to bed once and for all, since, in blood and DNA is found in the far reaches of the rifling inside the lining of the anshuzt rifle from all the victims, this will categorically prove that there was no silencer at all on the gun when all of the victims were shot - this is because according to the ballistic and blood experts (Fletcher and Hayward) there was only blood found and present as far down from the top of the silencer as far as the fifth and sixth of we enteen baffle plates! In other words no blood went back into the silencer beyond the sixth baffle to enter into the barrel of the rifle!

Therefore, if blood and DNA of the victims is present in the voids of the rifling inside the rifles barrel it could only have got there with the silencer not fitted!

If the Mallinson test results in the victims blood and or DNA being detected in the aforementioned voids in the rifling of the barrel, it will lead to the inevitable conclusion that the silencer evidence was deliberately fabricated tofeame Jeremy Bamber for these murders!

This is Jeremy Bambers best bet!
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

Offline Caroline

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Re: Home Office Letter, dated, 13th Jamuary 1994...
« Reply #7 on: December 01, 2017, 12:27:PM »
Keith Mallinsons report advocated that the inner lining of the anshuzt rifles barrell might reveal traces of Sheila's and the other victims bloods, and possibly human tissue concealed underneath and in-between the rifling design therein, which if tested properly (scientifically, and not merely like running a cloth through the length of the barrel as Fletcher had done) could help determine whether the silencer was fitted to the barrel of the rifle at the time any of the victims had been shot?

The type of test which Mallinsons suggested be carried out on the inner lining surface areas of the barrel including the rifling cavities, that he proposed in 2003 / 2004 can still be carried out today, using modern DNA technology...

I think it's Bambers best bet, because although he has many potential grounds and avenues of appeal, any fresh evidence which came to light as a result of Mallinsons theory could not be challenged for a number of obvious reasons which I can go into later on...

I say, do the Mallinsons tests now, let's put the silencer evidence to bed once and for all, since, in blood and DNA is found in the far reaches of the rifling inside the lining of the anshuzt rifle from all the victims, this will categorically prove that there was no silencer at all on the gun when all of the victims were shot - this is because according to the ballistic and blood experts (Fletcher and Hayward) there was only blood found and present as far down from the top of the silencer as far as the fifth and sixth of we enteen baffle plates! In other words no blood went back into the silencer beyond the sixth baffle to enter into the barrel of the rifle!

Therefore, if blood and DNA of the victims is present in the voids of the rifling inside the rifles barrel it could only have got there with the silencer not fitted!

If the Mallinson test results in the victims blood and or DNA being detected in the aforementioned voids in the rifling of the barrel, it will lead to the inevitable conclusion that the silencer evidence was deliberately fabricated tofeame Jeremy Bamber for these murders!

This is Jeremy Bambers best bet!

Well, even if such a test ever proved to be fruitful (which is unlikely now), that still wouldn't mean Jeremy didn't kill the family. I don't believe the silencer was used, but I STILL believe he's guilty.

However, IF this were ever proved, I do believe that he would deserve a retrial but NOT that he should walk from the COA a free man. (Although I don't believe either will ever happen).
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Offline mike tesko

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Re: Home Office Letter, dated, 13th Jamuary 1994...
« Reply #8 on: December 01, 2017, 12:47:PM »
Well, even if such a test ever proved to be fruitful (which is unlikely now), that still wouldn't mean Jeremy didn't kill the family. I don't believe the silencer was used, but I STILL believe he's guilty.

However, IF this were ever proved, I do believe that he would deserve a retrial but NOT that he should walk from the COA a free man. (Although I don't believe either will ever happen).

Caroline, artefacts recovered from prehistorical site digs can still produce human DNA, so there is a very good chance that hidden away and concealed in the voids of the aforementioned rifling inside the rifle barrel, will produce DNA of the victims, if the silencer was not used! It doesn't matter how long it has been in the lifetime of this case thus far, if the DNA of victims is there in any of the rifling voids of the guns barrel, it could only have got there without the silencer having been attached to the barrel. The silencer has already been tested to death and the gist of the evidence obtained from various examinations of it, suggested that it was Sheila's blood found inside the silencer as far down as the fifth or sixth baffles of seventeen in total! There was a possibility that the blood might be a mixture of the parents bloods! However, between the sixth and seventeenth baffle plate, there was no blood whatsoever, a gap which cannot be ignored should victims blood and or DNA be recovered from the recessed voids of the rifling inside the guns barrel by way of the Keith Mallinson proposal!

That 'Gap' consisting of eleven or twelve perfectly clean and uncontaminated baffle plates at the bottom end of the silencer would not sit well with a presence of victims blood, and or DNA in the aforementioned recesses of the rifling voids of the guns barrel as alluded to by the Mallinson theory!

I fear that the net result would be that the prosecution would have to finally concede that Jeremy Bamber had been wrongly convicted of the murders by the introduction of a dodgy silencer which someone had deliberately contaminated with blood and paint for the sole purpose of establishing that Sheila Caffell could not have committed suicide with use of that gun minus it's silencer, because during the trial the blood expert claimed that the blood found inside that silencer was in his view, unique and exclusive to her...

Yet, none of Sheila Caffells DNA was found to be present inside the silencer as per the 2002 test results. It is irrelevant that the court of appeal stated that the DNA evidence in that appeal could have got there as a result of cross contamination, since whether that be true or not, had Sheila Caffells DNA been present there inside that silencer it should have been detectable in any event, as evidenced by the fact that at least three different or separate DNA profiles were detected in the tests carried out in 2001 / 2002...

As far as I am aware, unlike where blood from two victims can mix intimately, or mask one blood group by another, this does not apply when dealing with DNA, which are uniquely distinguishable from one another!
« Last Edit: December 01, 2017, 12:52:PM by mike tesko »
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

Offline mike tesko

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Re: Home Office Letter, dated, 13th Jamuary 1994...
« Reply #9 on: December 01, 2017, 12:53:PM »
The anshuzt rifle needs seizing immediately, for the purpose of these proposed tests!

It's still being held at Essex Police museum, I believe...
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

Offline mike tesko

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Re: Home Office Letter, dated, 13th Jamuary 1994...
« Reply #10 on: December 01, 2017, 01:03:PM »
As I say, two components of the weapon - the silencer and the barrel of the rifle itself!

When fitted together, and depending upon any results obtained during the proposed Mallinson tests conducted on the recessed voids of the rifling inside the barrel, it could turn out to be a defining moment in this case, despite 32 years or more already having been wasted!

The top end of the silencer, contaminated with blood as far down to the fifth or sixth baffle plate, then a significant gap involving eleven or twelve clean uncontaminated baffles which sit snugly between the silencer and top end of the aforementioned barrel of the gun - any DNA found in the examination from the scraping and cleaning of the recessed voids of the rifling in the lining of the barrel itself, belonging to any or all of the five victims, would have to be regarded as being fresh evidence which was not available at the time of the 1986 trial, or the 2002 appeal! This proposed technique was only visualised by Mallinson with Smith's assistance in 2003 / 2004, and so all that matters now, is that the Mallinson theory gets put to the test, the results of such a test will be self evident to everyone concerned...
« Last Edit: December 01, 2017, 01:06:PM by mike tesko »
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

Offline Reader

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Re: Home Office Letter, dated, 13th Jamuary 1994...
« Reply #11 on: December 02, 2017, 09:09:AM »
The anshuzt rifle . . .
It was an Anschütz rifle, not an anshuzt rifle.

Offline lookout

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Re: Home Office Letter, dated, 13th Jamuary 1994...
« Reply #12 on: December 02, 2017, 09:21:AM »
I think Mike's entitled to a few " typo's " considering the posts he's written,don't you ?