Author Topic: Sheila's neck wound and the blood on her arm  (Read 129213 times)

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Offline mike tesko

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Re: Sheila's neck wound and the blood on her arm
« Reply #390 on: July 24, 2017, 10:26:AM »
Of course he's to blame, they are in his possession and you got invited down to his office and was shown the photos and allowed to take pictures, that's why the need for pii when unprofessionals can handle such sensitive information.

I was Jeremy's McKensie man, and I was entitled to do whatever I thought would help Jeremy! The cops staged Sheila's body and me taking the photographs that I took was the right thing to do under the circumstances! A lot of mischief occurs behind pii on the part of the authorities, for example, like withholding 358 photographs from the defence team, and withholding 531 photographs from the court which tried Bamber!
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

guest7363

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Re: Sheila's neck wound and the blood on her arm
« Reply #391 on: July 24, 2017, 10:26:AM »
I'm wondering why, at that point, you thought she'd been moved? Are you saying that because you wanted it to be believed "that Sheila's body had been moved or disturbed!" you only took "photographs of photographs" which you thought showed such?
So, defence have all these photo's and choose not to use them?

Offline mike tesko

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Re: Sheila's neck wound and the blood on her arm
« Reply #392 on: July 24, 2017, 10:39:AM »
My mistake. I believed you to have said the gun went off when they moved it from her  -still alive-  person whilst it was on the bed.

No, she was lifted to the floor from the bed, then during these informative, the gun was brought to her body - this took place at 9.13am and whilst they had the gun on her body they were gauging whether or not it might be possible to suggest that Sheila could have shot herself using the anshuzt rifle with its sound moderator fitted. But they realised it was touch and go because with the muzzle of the silencer under the point of her chin, the trigger mechanism could only just about be reached and activated, and it was whilst the senior officers were pondering over this and efforts to try and make it fit into that scenario, that the trigger was activated and to everybody's concern a shot was discharged under Sheila's chin! Nobody had checked the anshuzt rifle to see if it had any ammunition still in it! She got shot at 9.13am, and as soon as it happened the rifle was whisked away from her body and stood at the main bedroom window (DC Oakey/Henderson took photograph no. 23 afterwards), whilst Sheila's body was put into the recovery position on its right side! Blood from her mouth and neck spilled into the bedroom carpet and was covered up later by the open face down bible once her body was rolled back into the suppine position, and the rifle at the main bedroom window was then brought to her body and her death scene was staged, shot twice with the silencer removed from the barrel of the gun! DS Jones collected the silencer later that same morning, with by that stage the second team of SOCO in control of the staged crime scene!
« Last Edit: July 24, 2017, 10:42:AM by mike tesko »
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

Offline mike tesko

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Re: Sheila's neck wound and the blood on her arm
« Reply #393 on: July 24, 2017, 10:48:AM »
No, she was lifted to the floor from the bed, then during these informative, the gun was brought to her body - this took place at 9.13am and whilst they had the gun on her body they were gauging whether or not it might be possible to suggest that Sheila could have shot herself using the anshuzt rifle with its sound moderator fitted. But they realised it was touch and go because with the muzzle of the silencer under the point of her chin, the trigger mechanism could only just about be reached and activated, and it was whilst the senior officers were pondering over this and efforts to try and make it fit into that scenario, that the trigger was activated and to everybody's concern a shot was discharged under Sheila's chin! Nobody had checked the anshuzt rifle to see if it had any ammunition still in it! She got shot at 9.13am, and as soon as it happened the rifle was whisked away from her body and stood at the main bedroom window (DC Oakey/Henderson took photograph no. 23 afterwards), whilst Sheila's body was put into the recovery position on its right side! Blood from her mouth and neck spilled into the bedroom carpet and was covered up later by the open face down bible once her body was rolled back into the suppine position, and the rifle at the main bedroom window was then brought to her body and her death scene was staged, shot twice with the silencer removed from the barrel of the gun! DS Jones collected the silencer later that same morning, with by that stage the second team of SOCO in control of the staged crime scene!

At around 10 am, the senior officers who had performed the 'informatives', and the first team of SOCO (Oakey and Henderson) vacated the staged crime scene, and the second team of SOCO (Cook, Bird, Davidson and Hammersley) took control of the farmhouse and proceeded to photograph it as though nothing had been touched or disturbed! There was effectively a staging of the bedroom with the bodies of Sheila and June on the bedroom floor either side of the bed they had previously been laying upon as seen by Stan Jones and Mick Clark!!
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

Offline Jane

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Re: Sheila's neck wound and the blood on her arm
« Reply #394 on: July 24, 2017, 10:51:AM »
No, she was lifted to the floor from the bed, then during these informative, the gun was brought to her body - this took place at 9.13am and whilst they had the gun on her body they were gauging whether or not it might be possible to suggest that Sheila could have shot herself using the anshuzt rifle with its sound moderator fitted. But they realised it was touch and go because with the muzzle of the silencer under the point of her chin, the trigger mechanism could only just about be reached and activated, and it was whilst the senior officers were pondering over this and efforts to try and make it fit into that scenario, that the trigger was activated and to everybody's concern a shot was discharged under Sheila's chin! Nobody had checked the anshuzt rifle to see if it had any ammunition still in it! She got shot at 9.13am, and as soon as it happened the rifle was whisked away from her body and stood at the main bedroom window (DC Oakey/Henderson took photograph no. 23 afterwards), whilst Sheila's body was put into the recovery position on its right side! Blood from her mouth and neck spilled into the bedroom carpet and was covered up later by the open face down bible once her body was rolled back into the suppine position, and the rifle at the main bedroom window was then brought to her body and her death scene was staged, shot twice with the silencer removed from the barrel of the gun! DS Jones collected the silencer later that same morning, with by that stage the second team of SOCO in control of the staged crime scene!

Has it never struck you as being curious that YOU and YOU alone are the holder of this -allegedly- open secret which SHOULD have freed Jeremy at a moment's notice but not ONE single person who holds this secret -and there HAS to be others in order for you to have received the information- has done anything about it in all this time?

Offline mike tesko

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Re: Sheila's neck wound and the blood on her arm
« Reply #395 on: July 24, 2017, 10:53:AM »
At around 10 am, the senior officers who had performed the 'informatives', and the first team of SOCO (Oakey and Henderson) vacated the staged crime scene, and the second team of SOCO (Cook, Bird, Davidson and Hammersley) took control of the farmhouse and proceeded to photograph it as though nothing had been touched or disturbed! There was effectively a staging of the bedroom with the bodies of Sheila and June on the bedroom floor either side of the bed they had previously been laying upon as seen by Stan Jones and Mick Clark!!

The staging of the bodies in the main bedroom by senior officers during 'informatives', and the presence of the first team of SOCO (Oakey and Henderson) at the farmhouse, and everything they did and got up to prior to 10 am that morning has been deliberately withheld and an attempt to keep the truth surrounding Sheila Caffells death from being made public knowlege! But they were there, and they did everything I have told you about!
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

Offline Caroline

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Re: Sheila's neck wound and the blood on her arm
« Reply #396 on: July 24, 2017, 11:06:AM »
Mike, do you know whether it is possible to find out exactly which photos were shown to the jury and whether they were colour or black and white?

They would not have been black and white.
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Offline Caroline

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Re: Sheila's neck wound and the blood on her arm
« Reply #397 on: July 24, 2017, 11:13:AM »
A credible explanation was given here: http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,8513.0.html

He probably didn't want to lie.  He also probably didn't want to impede the police from making sure a multiple murderer didn't get 'off the hook'.

Again you have missed the CRUCIAL aspect - when Venezis FIRST took notes on the bodies, there couldn't have been any kind of conspiracy in the offing as it was hours after the murders. However, his notes do NOT refer to any marks on Sheila of the kind you and Bill are claiming. Looking at a photograph is no match for what Venezis saw and the ONLY way you can explain his notes is to state that they aren't genuine? So from your side 'everybody lied' even when there was nothing to lie about?
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Offline mike tesko

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Re: Sheila's neck wound and the blood on her arm
« Reply #398 on: July 24, 2017, 11:17:AM »
Again you have missed the CRUCIAL aspect - when Venezis FIRST took notes on the bodies, there couldn't have been any kind of conspiracy in the offing as it was hours after the murders. However, his notes do NOT refer to any marks on Sheila of the kind you and Bill are claiming. Looking at a photograph is no match for what Venezis saw and the ONLY way you can explain his notes is to state that they aren't genuine? So from your side 'everybody lied' even when there was nothing to lie about?

The original handwritten notes belonging to this case, made by Venezis, went missing during a burgalries at his home address! He had apparently taken them home with a view to revising them over the weekend, and somebody broke into his home, went into his lift and stole them! Can you believe it!!
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

Offline Caroline

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Re: Sheila's neck wound and the blood on her arm
« Reply #399 on: July 24, 2017, 11:20:AM »
In other words - EP can stretch the truth by claiming that images were made available at trial, which were of sufficient clarity to allow the defence to see the wounds and challenge accordingly.  The CCRC will take their word (as they always do in this case) and reject any submissions regarding this topic.  This amounts to keeping him in prison 'on a technicality'.

They can keep him in on a technicality - but what they will not be able to do is stop people at large from learning that:

Sheila Caffell had fight injuries

Nevill Bamber had fight injuries

June Bamber had fight injuries

Jeremy Bamber had no injuries whatsoever.

JB can die in prison.. but people will draw their own conclusions.  This is not a case that paints the authorities in a good light.

But you don't know that they were of inferior quality, you're assuming that because it eats at the heart of your claim. They would NOT have used black and white photographs and I know  this for a fact. You haven't seen the CS photos that th jury saw and yet you're really pushing the notion that they MUST have been poor quality and all concerned lied before there was anything to lie about or falsified autopsy info - putting their own career and reputation on the line - for what?
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Offline Caroline

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Re: Sheila's neck wound and the blood on her arm
« Reply #400 on: July 24, 2017, 11:24:AM »
The original handwritten notes belonging to this case, made by Venezis, went missing during a burgalries at his home address! He had apparently taken them home with a view to revising them over the weekend, and somebody broke into his home, went into his lift and stole them! Can you believe it!!

No Mike, actually I can't believe it. This is a burglary too far. Taff Jones had a similar burglary if I'm not mistaken and I have heard this claim about others. I don't believe there was any such theft but other are free to believe what they choose. It won't help Jeremy though. Only the truth will help him IF he is innocent. Venezis notes prove there were no such marks on Sheila's hands/arms - in order to further this aspect, people need to get past his notes. Good luck with that!
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Offline Caroline

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Re: Sheila's neck wound and the blood on her arm
« Reply #401 on: July 24, 2017, 11:32:AM »
The wounds were not only visible to believers.  So you can put that claim in the trash for starters.  And I suggest that if you cant tell what a fingernail gouge looks like on somebody's hand - then you should try and explain how a neck wound, spurting copious amounts of blood, can cause a smear on the back of a hand, right next to a crescent shaped incision?  You cannot explain it and you will not explain it - that being said - can you please spare us from reading more of your drivel about it?


You should try and explain why a respected pathologist omitted such marks from his initial report when he went into finite details about marks on Nevill. You cannot explain it and you won't explain it .....
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Offline Caroline

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Re: Sheila's neck wound and the blood on her arm
« Reply #402 on: July 24, 2017, 11:35:AM »
I thought Bill had photo's that show 28 scratches and these were being looked at?  This one he put up was just one of them and he had evidence of scratches elsewhere?

That's what was claimed - this being the case, no one has anything to worry about because IF they show what is being claimed, supporters can sit back and wait for the appeal. Of course if they don't show that and they can't explain Vanezis's notes, they might have to wait a tad longer!
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Offline Roch

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Re: Sheila's neck wound and the blood on her arm
« Reply #403 on: July 24, 2017, 12:00:PM »
Of course if they don't show that and they can't explain Vanezis's notes, they might have to wait a tad longer!

Given that you yourself have now witnessed two separate images, both with so called 'smears' that you cannot provide an explanation for - in relation to the neck wound ... I find your attitude puzzling.

I'm referring to the back of the hand (and inside forefinger) and the two 'smears' David inadvertently pointed out yesterday. 

This is not even including the images relating to the lower arm - nor any images relating to the upper arm!
« Last Edit: July 24, 2017, 12:00:PM by Roch »

Offline Caroline

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Re: Sheila's neck wound and the blood on her arm
« Reply #404 on: July 24, 2017, 12:03:PM »
Given that you yourself have now witnessed two separate images, both with so called 'smears' that you cannot provide an explanation for - in relation to the neck wound ... I find your attitude puzzling.

I'm referring to the back of the hand (and inside forefinger) and the two 'smears' David inadvertently pointed out yesterday. 

This is not even including the images relating to the lower arm - nor any images relating to the upper arm!

That makes two of us.
Few people have the imagination for reality