The window catch issue

[Romeo]

Justice, Jane J.... imo...I think JB purposely accessed WHF through the kitchen window after being released,  having said he had done this in his statement..... therefore proving he was telling the truth when he said it was something he'd done before...so nothing out of the normal... JB also knew that he hadn't exited that window, but was sticking two fingers up at Police who believed he had but couldn't prove it.

Remember JB told JM......the trick is to tell as much of the truth as possible.

[lookout]

Maybe it's worth looking at the point raised by Justice of why, on release from being questioned, did Jeremy then make a point of gaining entry to WHF through a window.

Why not, if that's what he intended to say ? It was a known method of entry,wasn't it ?

[Romeo]

Exactly.  This is what I meant about trying to stretch the prosecution evidence over Bamber.  As David said, he is not Houdini.

David's right!  Houdini escaped many times....Jeremy Bamber remains captured so no Houdini !

[lookout]

Was it ever a tried and tested conclusion ?

[maggie]

Scipio raised the same point as well Jane, not many people when released from questioning go back and enact part of what they have been accused off.

Even when I was convinced he was innocent I couldn't reconcile the way he entered through the window leaving a note for Jean B to lock it.  It seemed very much like two fingers up to the police etc.  It made me feel very uncomfortable.

[Jane]

Justice, Jane J.... imo...I think JB purposely accessed WHF through the kitchen window after being released,  having said he had done this in his statement..... therefore proving he was telling the truth when he said it was something he'd done before...so nothing out of the normal... JB also knew that he hadn't exited that window, but was sticking two fingers up at Police who believed he had but couldn't prove it.

Remember JB told JM......the trick is to tell as much of the truth as possible.

THAT, Romeo, has a certain ring of truth about it

[maggie]

David's right!  Houdini escaped many times....Jeremy Bamber remains captured.

Don't think he needed to be Houdini, he may have been let into the house by Sheila or any other member of the family, we don't know what time he returned to WHF that night, or he may have quite simply opened the window and climbed in as he proved he could and left some other way. 

You don't have to be Houdini to pull the top of a sash window right down, climb out, push it up again and climb down a ladder, I could do that without too much trouble, I'm sure. 

I agree JB may have been at home in bed until the phone call from Neil woke him but if he wasn't, if he did kill the family it wasn't as hard as it can appear ay first glance for him to enter and leave after securing all windows and doors imo.

[lookout]

That's the trouble,he was telling the truth all along-----------remember when the " fostering " argument backfired after he'd been accused of lying ?
 Well the same thing is going to happen with the window and a few other things too !!

[Romeo]

Even when I was convinced he was innocent I couldn't reconcile the way he entered through the window leaving a note for Jean B to lock it.  It seemed very much like two fingers up to the police etc.  It made me feel very uncomfortable.

Do we know the exact type of lock used on the back door at WHF.....was it a deadlock?

[Caroline]

That's the trouble,he was telling the truth all along-----------remember when the " fostering " argument backfired after he'd been accused of lying ?
 Well the same thing is going to happen with the window and a few other things too !!

The fostering argument hasn't backfired.

[guest7363]

Even when I was convinced he was innocent I couldn't reconcile the way he entered through the window leaving a note for Jean B to lock it.  It seemed very much like two fingers up to the police etc.  It made me feel very uncomfortable.

Quite true Maggie, this in turn gave his defence little room for manoeuvre conceding that he had in fact made the marks on the window.  Read these statements,

http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=5816.0;attach=37833
http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=5816.0;attach=37835

That is why he had to go back in or say he had been back in,  he knew something was wrong, he had committed himself, so he went for an alibi.  Anyone who thinks Bamber has to be some sort of Houdini to get in and out windows, read the statements, he went in and out the windows more than using the doors?  Securing the window, if you can open it from the outside using an implement, why not be able to secure it?

[guest7363]

Do we know the exact type of lock used on the back door at WHF.....was it a deadlock?

I would have thought so Romeo, all it says is the key was left in?

[Adam]

Exactly Lookout and I am with you on this, I find it hard to believe that window could have been banged shut and secured.  At the same time why assume that window was used at all?  Maybe because it was the easiest option to prove at the time although it doesn't really convince.  On the other hand I have a bee in my bonnet about the main bedroom window which was left open and could easily have been used as an exit and was barely mentioned.

Seems there are assumptions and dismissals whichever side of the argument you are on.

It's no big deal to bang shut a window from outside. So one lock falls into place inside.

Once this happens the window is officially secured. It may not be fort knox, but to the police on the night, it looked secure.

Agree he could have exited out of the open bedroom window. Although I don't believe he did.

[Adam]

There's nothing in the released evidence to show that the police found the "horizontal" catch off its pegs. That would certainly have been reported if true, but all that's known about that catch is that DC Barlow couldn't fully secure it from outside and the police had already checked the window (along with others) and said it was secure. The police simply accepted Julie's suggestion that Jeremy had used the kitchen window as the most likely explanation, despite not finding good evidence to support that. Jeremy had not demonstrated that he could secure any window from outside, and had stated that that couldn't be done.

Bamber said he didn't know the kitchen window could be banged shut from outside. Not that he knew it couldn't be done as that is suggesting he had attempted this.

Barlow testified the horizintal lock could not be banged shut onto it's pegs from outside. So would have obviously testified that at the crime scene,  the window was off it's pegs.

[Romeo]

I would have thought so Romeo, all it says is the key was left in?

Thanks Justice.