Who has more rights thirty years on: Jeremy or Colin?

[lookout]

Has an officer,in any case,not just this one,ever come forward and admitted their mistake ?

[lookout]

How many years did it take Duckenfield to admit to what he'd done ?

[lookout]

It's when these " mistakes " aren't admitted that things become dirty and cover-ups become evident although it didn't begin as a cover-up.
This is what's happened at the very beginning of this case and it went from there-------the blame game,the finger pointing and name-calling !

[lookout]

The blessed phone-calls about who phoned who from where to whom. You can tell where all this began by the umpteen edits/mistakes/crossings out on the phone logs-------all six of them.

[David1819]

Good comments Jane J.....

I don't believe for one moment that Neville rang Chelmsford police... JB did!  NB was shot in the jaw upstairs, which made speech impossible, he then made it downstairs ( which we know he did probably at gun point) looked up the number for Chelmsford police although he had emergency numbers on the dial of his phone... also rang JB... and didn't leave an excessive amount of blood on the phone in the process..... Never!

He rang Jeremy before he was shot.

Lookout, the police were under the impression it was 5 murders and a suicide when they entered WHF, to say they destroyed evidence that could have proved JB's innocence is not the case. If anything, any evidence that was destroyed was because JB had spun a good line implicating his sister! Taff Jones was in charge in the beginning and believed JB...so he would have been the one to give the go ahead to burn evidence.

The evidence crucial to the case was burned in 1996. Its the police that had something to hide not Jeremy.

Once the police etc looked into the crime more, it became obvious Sheila had not shot herself twice in the neck.....Taff Jones was then replaced because crucial evidence had been lost!  Conclusion....JB spun such a great line regarding his sister, that he shot himself in the foot regarding convincing Taff Jones of his supposed innocence.

The evidence that suggests Sheila did not shoot herself was nothing more that a sound moderator that was fabricated maliciously. In other words no material evidence at.

By the time Vanezis conducted the autopsy by the early afternoon, Hypostasis was established and consistent with the position of her lying flat on her back. In the crime scene photos taken around 9.30am there is no developed post mortem hypostasis visible. This not only makes it impossible for Jeremy to have killed Sheila it also explains how DI Cook was able to move her arm in the way he did because there was a lack of rigour mortis. It also explains why the blood on her neck looks uncoagulated (Because it was). It also explains why movement was reported at 4am, because Sheila was alive Inside the farm while Jeremy was outside the farm. It also explains why Sheila had undigested food in her stomach while the other four did not because she behaved very differently that night compared to her parents and children.

I know what the response will be
B B B B But Jeremy still in prison so cant be troo.

[Romeo]

He rang Jeremy before he was shot.

The evidence crucial to the case was burned in 1996. Its the police that had something to hide not Jeremy.The farm workers and police burnt evidence at WHF long before 1996!

The evidence that suggests Sheila did not shoot herself was nothing more that a sound moderator that was fabricated maliciously. in your opinion, you can't prove it though! In other words no material evidence at.   Then of course her clean feet and her staged position to name but two Also the rifle that was place on her body... Then you have the Hypothesis on her arms, her perfectly painted nails, the blood that had run down her right side before congealing,  proving she was moved. oh...and Sheila wasn't used to using and loading rifles....However, JB was a good liar I'll give him that!

By the time Vanezis conducted the autopsy by the early afternoon, Hypostasis was established and consistent with the position of her lying flat on her back. In the crime scene photos taken around 9.30am there is no developed post mortem hypostasis visible. This not only makes it impossible for Jeremy to have killed Sheila it also explains how DI Cook was able to move her arm in the way he did because there was a lack of rigour mortis. It also explains why the blood on her neck looks uncoagulated (Because it was). It also explains why movement was reported at 4am, because Sheila was alive Inside the farm while Jeremy was outside the farm. It also explains why Sheila had undigested food in her stomach while the other four did not because she behaved very differently that night compared to her parents and children. I'm not even going there David, you know my opinion on Sheila's Hypothesis  and rigor moris, and you won't change my mind. As regards Sheila's undigested food, no other family member was checked, so how can you say the other members did not have undigested food! How did Sheila behave differently? Next you'll be claiming Sheila was still warm! 

I know what the response will be
B B B B But Jeremy still in prison so cant be troo.   You've got me wrong there David....That should be a smiley face, as I'm so pleased Jeremy Bamber is where he belongs!   

[Jane]

It wasn't covered up as such. A mistake had been made by EP thinking that "a " single call came from Mr Bamber,when in fact there were two Mr Bambers but by the time the messages had been taken and cars dispatched to the  " one " address where the incident happened to be,as time went on and a tragedy became imminent,that mistake then became swallowed up with what had happened and so it became too late to rectify.
I can clearly see what happened but it's difficult to put into words what I'm trying to explain.

The problem with that, Steve, is that I'd say, in this day and age -even back in the 80's- we'd all but dropped the Victorian formality of the use of personal titles. It's a forename/surname society. Nevill MAY have still been 'old school'enough to answer a call with "Bamber here" -he may even have used it when making a call to someone he knew-  because he was known locally. Jeremy was too young to adopt such an approach. I don't believe Nevill would have assumed that he'd have been known by those on the desk at police HQ at the time of morning the call is alleged to have taken place. Jeremy, if he hadn't already given his name as being JEREMY Bamber, would NOT have simply stated MR Bamber when asked for his name, ergo I do NOT believe -should I believe that Nevill called the police- there was ANY confusion about names.

[lookout]

The problem with that, Steve, is that I'd say, in this day and age -even back in the 80's- we'd all but dropped the Victorian formality of the use of personal titles. It's a forename/surname society. Nevill MAY have still been 'old school'enough to answer a call with "Bamber here" -he may even have used it when making a call to someone he knew-  because he was known locally. Jeremy was too young to adopt such an approach. I don't believe Nevill would have assumed that he'd have been known by those on the desk at police HQ at the time of morning the call is alleged to have taken place. Jeremy, if he hadn't already given his name as being JEREMY Bamber, would NOT have simply stated MR Bamber when asked for his name, ergo I do NOT believe -should I believe that Nevill called the police- there was ANY confusion about names.

PS,I'm not Steve.

Old school or not,Neville would have addressed himself to the police as Mr Bamber--------which he did and that's where the mix-up was. The police aren't or weren't very bright at times,especially back then on a quiet night when nothing much was going on,unlike today where they're well and truly kept on their toes with all the crime,and so they may have been parked up somewhere having a cosy chat,their minds miles away from their jobs,then suddenly these calls come through and they have to jump to while probably in a state of confusion as to where the crime actually is and who they themselves are going to address. The name they have is Mr Bamber-----well there were two actually !!

[guest7363]

Has an officer,in any case,not just this one,ever come forward and admitted their mistake ?

I do believe the officers present at the battle of Orgrave are now admitting mistakes and cover up's, at the time described, the Orgreave evidence was “the biggest frame-up ever”, having highlighted during the trial other alleged police malpractice: an officer who forged another’s signature on a statement, false evidence against individuals, and general police evidence that misrepresented what actually happened

Police are now coming forward, not one but several.

[Jane]

PS,I'm not Steve.

Old school or not,Neville would have addressed himself to the police as Mr Bamber--------which he did and that's where the mix-up was. The police aren't or weren't very bright at times,especially back then on a quiet night when nothing much was going on,unlike today where they're well and truly kept on their toes with all the crime,and so they may have been parked up somewhere having a cosy chat,their minds miles away from their jobs,then suddenly these calls come through and they have to jump to while probably in a state of confusion as to where the crime actually is and who they themselves are going to address. The name they have is Mr Bamber-----well there were two actually !!

Sorry about the mix up, Lookout, however, I'm sticking to MY belief that, IF the call was made, he'd have said "I'm/My name is NEVILL Bamber, WHF, Tolleshunt D'Arcy, followed by the message. How such could have become mixed up with JEREMY Bamber, 9 head Street, Goldhanger, is beyond me.

[guest2181]

Sorry about the mix up, Lookout, however, I'm sticking to MY belief that, IF the call was made, he'd have said "I'm/My name is NEVILL Bamber, WHF, Tolleshunt D'Arcy, followed by the message. How such could have become mixed up with JEREMY Bamber, 9 head Street, Goldhanger, is beyond me.

Plus Bonnett notes on his message form that the sender was West.

I'm pretty sure this has been explained quite clearly, so I don't know why this call from Neville nonsense keeps cropping up.

[lookout]

Sorry about the mix up, Lookout, however, I'm sticking to MY belief that, IF the call was made, he'd have said "I'm/My name is NEVILL Bamber, WHF, Tolleshunt D'Arcy, followed by the message. How such could have become mixed up with JEREMY Bamber, 9 head Street, Goldhanger, is beyond me.

It's possible he'd have " quickly/hastily " ( as you would given the circumstances ) that he'd just quoted " Neville Bamber here " but would have put the emphasis on where he was as well as the situation,with little time to say anything else. If Neville had been listening out for the direction of Sheila around the farmhouse,at the same time,chances are that the mouthpiece of the phone wouldn't have been " full on " either because of the movement of his head,so obliterating half his message to whom he'd been speaking.

I'm personally convinced that there was a mix-up of names-------------it doesn't take much if you happened to have been concentrating on what the call had been about.
Today,we call it multi-tasking,it was never heard of nor practised back then.

[lookout]

If Jeremy is/was adamant that his father called the police,then that's good enough for me.
Remember when he was disbelieved and called a liar over the fostering when he'd mentioned that ?
Jeremy hasn't told any lies and has been up-front about everything that was asked of him. Compare his statement to others !

[guest2181]

If Jeremy is/was adamant that his father called the police,then that's good enough for me.
Remember when he was disbelieved and called a liar over the fostering when he'd mentioned that ?
Jeremy hasn't told any lies and has been up-front about everything that was asked of him. Compare his statement to others !

The first log is of a call from Jeremy to West. West's badge number is 1990.




The second log is of a call from West to Bonnett. It's there in black and white, plus we have the testimonies of these two people to corroborate it further.

[lookout]

Jeremy is being fobbed off from every direction.Thank God for the willingness of his legal team to see this nightmare through.I personally can't think or imagine a worse position to be in when you know you're telling the truth and nobody's listening. It's an unthinkable situation that needs to happen to someone when they least expect it to know how it feels.