Author Topic: Who has more rights thirty years on: Jeremy or Colin?  (Read 246275 times)

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Offline lookout

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Re: Who has more rights thirty years on: Jeremy or Colin?
« Reply #135 on: November 04, 2015, 06:06:PM »
How awful,Lookout.  I woukd guess you were very young then as well.






Yes I was young Maggie working 4 on and 4 off-7am to 7pm.

Offline maggie

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Re: Who has more rights thirty years on: Jeremy or Colin?
« Reply #136 on: November 04, 2015, 06:11:PM »





Yes I was young Maggie working 4 on and 4 off-7am to 7pm.
12 hours and only allowed to sit down for half hour lunch and short break  Those were the days  ;D ;D ;D

Offline lookout

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Re: Who has more rights thirty years on: Jeremy or Colin?
« Reply #137 on: November 04, 2015, 06:20:PM »
12 hours and only allowed to sit down for half hour lunch and short break  Those were the days  ;D ;D ;D






No wonder I'm a tough old bint,Maggie. ;D ;D ;D ;D

Offline Steve_uk

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Re: Who has more rights thirty years on: Jeremy or Colin?
« Reply #138 on: November 04, 2015, 06:33:PM »
From The Murders At White House Farm:

When June didn't respond to medication or psychoanalysis,she was given a course of electroshock therapy,receiving the treatment on at least six occasions at St. Andrew's. Lying on a gurney in a hospital gown,the patient would be injected twice;first with a general anaesthetic,then with a muscle relaxant. A mouth guard stopped her from biting her tongue,and oxygen was administered through a face mask. Two metal plates were applied to the temples where conducting gel had been rubbed onto her skin,delivering a series of high-voltage electrical pulses into the brain to produce an epileptic fit. Electroshock took half an hour ,with pulses lasting between five and fifteen seconds. The patient was then turned on her side,ingesting oxygen until the muscle relaxant wore off. A severe headache,sore muscles,and nausea habitually followed. Memory loss was another side effect,usually short term,although some patients reported permanent partial loss.

June was said to have made a full recovery as a result,but the procedure could not address underlying issues or prevent remission. During her absence,Nevill had shared the care of Sheila with family members. When his wife returned home,a seventeen-year-old girl was taken on as full-time nanny. Julia Saye was never aware of any problems in the household and regarded her employers as friends,remaining in touch with them until the end of their lives.


From Colin's book "In Search of the Rainbow's End"

In their book The Family Crucible,family therapists Augustus Napier and Carl Whitaker talk about the family as a "system" in which all members actively participate-albeit unconsciously-as in a biological organism. For example if one part is "sick",then all the parts are sick,and the person referred to as the "presenting problem" is often not really sick but a manifestation of the entire family dynamic-like the fruiting body of a fungus being only the outward representation of something that inhabits and eats away the fabric of an entire tree. It can emerge on any part of the tree,or family.

This all begins to back up my own suspicion that the sickness in the Bamber family had little if anything to do with Bambs's and Jeremy's families of origin but was connected,instead,to their environment-the home they grew up in. In that respect,it was obviously not congenital.

The unfortunate knock-on effect-I see this now but could not have known then-is that by keeping Bambs away from June as much as possible,giving her both space and time to heal,the disturbance was likely to break out in the next weakest link of the family structure,that being Jeremy. It was unlikely to re-emerge in June because her condition had been effectively contained through medical treatment rather than worked out through a process of psychotherapy;the underlying emotional causes having still not been dealt with.
« Last Edit: November 04, 2015, 06:37:PM by Steve_uk »

Offline maggie

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Re: Who has more rights thirty years on: Jeremy or Colin?
« Reply #139 on: November 04, 2015, 06:34:PM »





No wonder I'm a tough old bint,Maggie. ;D ;D ;D ;D
True!!  ;D ;D

Offline maggie

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Re: Who has more rights thirty years on: Jeremy or Colin?
« Reply #140 on: November 04, 2015, 06:43:PM »
From The Murders At White House Farm:

When June didn't respond to medication or psychoanalysis,she was given a course of electroshock therapy,receiving the treatment on at least six occasions at St. Andrew's. Lying on a gurney in a hospital gown,the patient would be injected twice;first with a general anaesthetic,then with a muscle relaxant. A mouth guard stopped her from biting her tongue,and oxygen was administered through a face mask. Two metal plates were applied to the temples where conducting gel had been rubbed onto her skin,delivering a series of high-voltage electrical pulses into the brain to produce an epileptic fit. Electroshock took half an hour ,with pulses lasting between five and fifteen seconds. The patient was then turned on her side,ingesting oxygen until the muscle relaxant wore off. A severe headache,sore muscles,and nausea habitually followed. Memory loss was another side effect,usually short term,although some patients reported permanent partial loss.

June was said to have made a full recovery as a result,but the procedure could not address underlying issues or prevent remission. During her absence,Nevill had shared the care of Sheila with family members. When his wife returned home,a seventeen-year-old girl was taken on as full-time nanny. Julia Saye was never aware of any problems in the household and regarded her employers as friends,remaining in touch with them until the end of their lives.


From Colin's book "In Search of the Rainbow's End"

In their book The Family Crucible,family therapists Augustus Napier and Carl Whitaker talk about the family as a "system" in which all members actively participate-albeit unconsciously-as in a biological organism. For example if one part is "sick",then all the parts are sick,and the person referred to as the "presenting problem" is often not really sick but a manifestation of the entire family dynamic-like the fruiting body of a fungus being only the outward representation of something that inhabits and eats away the fabric of an entire tree. It can emerge on any part of the tree,or family.

This all begins to back up my own suspicion that the sickness in the Bamber family had little if anything to do with Bambs's and Jeremy's families of origin but was connected,instead,to their environment-the home they grew up in. In that respect,it was obviously not congenital.

The unfortunate knock-on effect-I see this now but could not have known then-is that by keeping Bambs away from June as much as possible,giving her both space and time to heal,the disturbance was likely to break out in the next weakest link of the family structure,that being Jeremy. It was unlikely to re-emerge in June because her condition had been effectively contained through medical treatment rather than worked out through a process of psychotherapy;the underlying emotional causes having still not been dealt with.

Maybe  :-\ but adoption is the common theme and The Primal Wound explains very clearly the trauma which can happen to the adopted baby.   Adding to that wound by sending them both away to boarding school was always going to make things even worse emphasising feelings of loss and abandonment in their conscious and unconscious minds. imo :-\
« Last Edit: November 04, 2015, 06:50:PM by maggie »

Offline Steve_uk

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Re: Who has more rights thirty years on: Jeremy or Colin?
« Reply #141 on: November 04, 2015, 06:55:PM »
Maybe  :-\ but adoption is the common theme and The Primal Wound explains very clearly the trauma which can happen to the adopted baby.   Adding to that wound by sending them both away to boarding school was always going to make things even worse emphasising feelings of loss and abandonment in their conscious and unconscious minds. imo :-\
I think Jeremy could have overcome this had his parents bought him a West End wine bar to manage,whereas I'm unsure as to the future which awaited Sheila even with June's intended allowance.

Offline Jane

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Re: Who has more rights thirty years on: Jeremy or Colin?
« Reply #142 on: November 04, 2015, 06:56:PM »
From The Murders At White House Farm:

When June didn't respond to medication or psychoanalysis,she was given a course of electroshock therapy,receiving the treatment on at least six occasions at St. Andrew's. Lying on a gurney in a hospital gown,the patient would be injected twice;first with a general anaesthetic,then with a muscle relaxant. A mouth guard stopped her from biting her tongue,and oxygen was administered through a face mask. Two metal plates were applied to the temples where conducting gel had been rubbed onto her skin,delivering a series of high-voltage electrical pulses into the brain to produce an epileptic fit. Electroshock took half an hour ,with pulses lasting between five and fifteen seconds. The patient was then turned on her side,ingesting oxygen until the muscle relaxant wore off. A severe headache,sore muscles,and nausea habitually followed. Memory loss was another side effect,usually short term,although some patients reported permanent partial loss.

]June was said to have made a full recovery as a result,but the procedure could not address underlying issues or prevent remission. During her absence,Nevill had shared the care of Sheila with family members. When his wife returned home,a seventeen-year-old girl was taken on as full-time nanny. Julia Saye was never aware of any problems in the household and regarded her employers as friends,remaining in touch with them until the end of their lives.


From Colin's book "In Search of the Rainbow's End"

In their book The Family Crucible,family therapists Augustus Napier and Carl Whitaker talk about the family as a "system" in which all members actively participate-albeit unconsciously-as in a biological organism. For example if one part is "sick",then all the parts are sick,and the person referred to as the "presenting problem" is often not really sick but a manifestation of the entire family dynamic-like the fruiting body of a fungus being only the outward representation of something that inhabits and eats away the fabric of an entire tree. It can emerge on any part of the tree,or family.

This all begins to back up my own suspicion that the sickness in the Bamber family had little if anything to do with Bambs's and Jeremy's families of origin but was connected,instead,to their environment-the home they grew up in. In that respect,it was obviously not congenital.

The unfortunate knock-on effect-I see this now but could not have known then-is that by keeping Bambs away from June as much as possible,giving her both space and time to heal,the disturbance was likely to break out in the next weakest link of the family structure,that being Jeremy. It was unlikely to re-emerge in June because her condition had been effectively contained through medical treatment rather than worked out through a process of psychotherapy;the underlying emotional causes having still not been dealt with.



I'm reminded of the words of a wonderful, old school psychologist called Dorothy Rowe. She maintained that she had never known ECT to cure the problems, in a marriage, which had led to the patient's depression.

I can't disagree with much of what Colin says. MOST of it forms the basis of what I was taught. That which doesn't, I have empirical evidence of.

Offline maggie

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Re: Who has more rights thirty years on: Jeremy or Colin?
« Reply #143 on: November 04, 2015, 07:02:PM »
I think Jeremy could have overcome this had his parents bought him a West End wine bar to manage,whereas I'm unsure as to the future which awaited Sheila even with June's intended allowance.
You don't know that Steve.  Jeremy could have been more damaged than Sheila for all we know.  It is believed that adoptees often latch onto a love of money or possessions rather than give their heart to human beings whom they believe will always let them down. :-\

Offline Jane

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Re: Who has more rights thirty years on: Jeremy or Colin?
« Reply #144 on: November 04, 2015, 07:04:PM »
I think Jeremy could have overcome this had his parents bought him a West End wine bar to manage,whereas I'm unsure as to the future which awaited Sheila even with June's intended allowance.

Steve, I think Jeremy was far more capable, than Sheila, of making a fist of something which interested him but it may have seemed to him that it was Sheila, who despite doing nothing to earn them, was given the rewards. Effectively she got it all in the here and now whilst he had to wait -for what must have seemed like ever- before he got his reward.

Offline Jane

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Re: Who has more rights thirty years on: Jeremy or Colin?
« Reply #145 on: November 04, 2015, 07:05:PM »
You don't know that Steve.  Jeremy could have been more damaged than Sheila for all we know.  It is believed that adoptees often latch onto a love of money or possessions rather than give their heart to human beings whom they believe will always let them down. :-\


Trouble is, Maggie, if it's never been given them, unconditionally, they won't know how -or WHERE- to give it.

Offline Steve_uk

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Re: Who has more rights thirty years on: Jeremy or Colin?
« Reply #146 on: November 04, 2015, 07:18:PM »
Steve, I think Jeremy was far more capable, than Sheila, of making a fist of something which interested him but it may have seemed to him that it was Sheila, who despite doing nothing to earn them, was given the rewards. Effectively she got it all in the here and now whilst he had to wait -for what must have seemed like ever- before he got his reward.
Yes and what a sign of immaturity that he couldn't recognize that his sister needed special help.

Offline Steve_uk

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Re: Who has more rights thirty years on: Jeremy or Colin?
« Reply #147 on: November 04, 2015, 07:20:PM »
In fact they were all young-Jeremy,Julie,Sheila and Colin and all made mistakes which I'm sure when they looked back they lived to regret.

Offline Jane

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Re: Who has more rights thirty years on: Jeremy or Colin?
« Reply #148 on: November 04, 2015, 07:24:PM »
Yes and what a sign of immaturity that he couldn't recognize that his sister needed special help.

Steve, I don't believe we do recognize thing we're close up to unless they're pointed out and in the Bambers' case, I think they did their best to keep Sheila's problem under wraps.

Offline maggie

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Re: Who has more rights thirty years on: Jeremy or Colin?
« Reply #149 on: November 04, 2015, 07:29:PM »
Steve, I don't believe we do recognize thing we're close up to unless they're pointed out and in the Bambers' case, I think they did their best to keep Sheila's problem under wraps.
I'm not saying it was the case in this instance but often sisters or brothers of an unwell sibling prefer to call them 'lazy' 'pretending' 'attention seeking' etc. rather than admit they are really ill.  :-\  They simply don't want to accept the truth so it's easier to pretend it isn't happening.