why does jeremy bother to go home.

[Steve_uk]

Steve I don't think Sheila knew she was going to loose her boys maybe just her Mother we have asked so many times on here where was Sheila whilst Jeremy was shooting his family why did she not put up a struggle I am not clear in my mind what happened I just think Jeremy murdered his family and Sheila was involved but not in any killings.

But I don't see how any selective killing could have been arranged and Sheila was too far gone by the Tuesday night anyhow and as has been intimated possibly heading back into residential care of some kind.

[Caroline]

But I don't see how any selective killing could have been arranged and Sheila was too far gone by the Tuesday night anyhow and as has been intimated possibly heading back into residential care of some kind.

The statement by Pam Boutflour made no mention of 'care' or 'institution' - she did however, use the term 'holiday'.

[Jane]

But I don't see how any selective killing could have been arranged and Sheila was too far gone by the Tuesday night anyhow and as has been intimated possibly heading back into residential care of some kind.

Perhaps we should cut Sheila some slack. We don't know for sure that Sheila was in a place so bad that she was going to be readmitted to hospital. We only have Jeremy's word for it -of course, the irony is, if she was in any way a participant in what Jeremy had planned, it was probably true- as we only have his word that June suggested that Sheila took a holiday in a "home" in Bournemouth.

[Steve_uk]

The statement by Pam Boutflour made no mention of 'care' or 'institution' - she did however, use the term 'holiday'.

Yes I didn't want to suggest that she was necessarily heading for a further breakdown or that her life was in some way not as valid as the next person's,just that I could not see her in her current state that week of acquiescing to and in any way planning the murder of her parents.

[susan]

But I don't see how any selective killing could have been arranged and Sheila was too far gone by the Tuesday night anyhow and as has been intimated possibly heading back into residential care of some kind.

Steve sorry I cannot explain or understand Sheila's state of mind I just feel she was too compliant to not be on his side he had two adults to deal with also she was so clean and had she changed her clothes where were her soiled clothes when EP arrived on the scene.

[Jan]

Also Nugs if you think about it,  much easier to kill when people are asleep, it would have been much harder had they all been awake. I think about 2.00am would be the time that people are in their deepest sleep.  Could be this is why Sheila's bed did not appear to have been slept in if we go by the PH and the letter, maybe Sheila was aware Jeremy would return and she was restless and waiting for him?  Food for thought?

So do you think it fair that his journey back to the house that was assumed by the prosecution should have been recreated exactly at that time of night to see if it was possible in the dark on a ladies bike or walking?

[Caroline]

So do you think it fair that his journey back to the house that was assumed by the prosecution should have been recreated exactly at that time of night to see if it was possible in the dark on a ladies bike or walking?

Why wouldn't it be fair?

[scipio_usmc]

So do you think it fair that his journey back to the house that was assumed by the prosecution should have been recreated exactly at that time of night to see if it was possible in the dark on a ladies bike or walking?

I have walked in dark woods in the night without issue beyond getting tore up by thorns since I could not see them to avoid and had shorts on.  Of course walking or taking a bike at night is possible.  Whether it is likely as opposed to using a motor vehicle depends entirely upon the thought process of the person who needs to get form point A to B.

The time was so late that Jeremy could have decided to use his car figuring no one would be likely to see him.  If he was too scared that someone still might be around to encounter him then he would select the bike as he told Julie he planned to do.  I would have used a car not bothered with a bike.  It was a desolate enough area that I would not be worried of being seen at that hour by someone who would recognize me and recall it later to tell police that I had been seen.  Someone paranoid might think differently.

It makes no difference whether he used a car or bike or even walked.  If he had was stuck in an electric wheelchair with a battery that could not make it round trip and he could not drive then the issue of how he got there would be a significant point.  But that was not the case or anything similar.  So the constant arguments over this issue make little sense to me.   

[Adam]

So do you think it fair that his journey back to the house that was assumed by the prosecution should have been recreated exactly at that time of night to see if it was possible in the dark on a ladies bike or walking?

Where I live I could walk or cycle around at night. Even if all street lights had been turned off.

Bamber probably knew the routes  like the back of his hand. If he didn't he would have found out during his 18 months of planning. Julie said he was planning to do a trial run before the massacre.

It would be unfair to expect the police to do it at night. They would not be familiar with the route.

[lookout]

The statement by Pam Boutflour made no mention of 'care' or 'institution' - she did however, use the term 'holiday'.

This is exactly the reason why nobody had any idea that Sheila wasn't well,because her illness had been hidden and any mention of it would have been referred to as " off-days ". Such as " holiday " had been mentioned because it sounded better than " convalescing ". The jury didn't even get to know about the children having been fostered because when Jeremy had spoken of it he was accused of lying by RWB who'd disbelieved him.
It only took half a dozen of Sheila's psychotic " incidence " remarks to have been mentioned,for those who spoke about them to have been branded liars. This is why EVERYONE had stated that it would have been impossible for Sheila to have killed anyone.NOBODY had believed that there was anything other than a slight phase in which she was going through after a divorce. RWB had convinced everyone that there had been nothing wrong with Sheila and so his word was taken.
Even Dr.Ferguson didn't know what he was talking about when he diagnosed " mild " schizophrenia.
Not even the remark which Sheila had told BW was ever mentioned,that " all people are bad and should be killed ",or words to that effect. Is there any proof that Sheila ever said this if it wasn't shown/told to the jury ?

I'm beginning to wonder myself whether there was anything wrong with Sheila other than a suppressed anger which showed itself when she let off steam.It could have been her way of expressing herself like a child when throwing a tantrum. All the medication did would have been to worsen the problem. I think now that far too much has been made of her being psychotic,whereby it's been an uncontrolled temper which previously she hadn't been able to express,therefore left festering and smouldering and at some point needed an outlet.
Her outward appearance didn't give the impression of someone who was stricken with mental illness.There was no sign of illness of her body,so she was able to eat. Her hair didn't appear limp and lank and lifeless as in someone who is mentally ill either as it's the first thing which suffers,for obvious reasons,because she had lovely hair,so looked after it, and herself whereas those with severe mental health problems don't care how they look and don't even look after themselves.
So you're left pondering,well I am,as to whether Sheila was as mentally ill as has been reported. Sheila hadn't wanted to stay at WHF because it took her out of the way of the life which she'd got used to and enjoyed,which again,you wouldn't if you were sick or unaware of where you were because of confusion.
No wonder Sheila didn't take her medication-----------she didn't need it and would have come to realise herself that she didn't need it.
Her " psychosis " is sounding more and more like an excuse,both for herself and for Jeremy too.  This is where I need positive proof that Sheila had a mental health issue,i.e. brain-scan,because tantrums don't necessarily mean that a person has a mental illness, just a few sessions at an anger management clinic could have been just as successful,perhaps with a beta-blocker to curb anxiety.
Most of the time Sheila was in control of all her faculties. Which ISN'T the case of a schizophrenic who misses or doesn't take their medication. They need continuity to remain free from relapses.   

[Adam]

I have walked in dark woods in the night without issue beyond getting tore up by thorns since I could not see them to avoid and had shorts on.  Of course walking or taking a bike at night is possible.  Whether it is likely as opposed to using a motor vehicle depends entirely upon the thought process of the person who needs to get form point A to B.

The time was so late that Jeremy could have decided to use his car figuring no one would be likely to see him.  If he was too scared that someone still might be around to encounter him then he would select the bike as he told Julie he planned to do.  I would have used a car not bothered with a bike.  It was a desolate enough area that I would not be worried of being seen at that hour by someone who would recognize me and recall it later to tell police that I had been seen.  Someone paranoid might think differently.

It makes no difference whether he used a car or bike or even walked.  If he had was stuck in an electric wheelchair with a battery that could not make it round trip and he could not drive then the issue of how he got there would be a significant point.  But that was not the case or anything similar.  So the constant arguments over this issue make little sense to me.   

It is true a brisk walk or jog to WHF could be done in less than an hour. His latest video states no one saw his car move that night. Although it was used to meet the police.

However it was a massive coincidence that the bike was brought over just before the massacre. And also a massively weak reason why it was brought over. Julie said he planned to cycle to WHF. Which would not be hard to do.

It is almost certain he cycled to WHF.

[Caroline]

This is exactly the reason why nobody had any idea that Sheila wasn't well,because her illness had been hidden and any mention of it would have been referred to as " off-days ". Such as " holiday " had been mentioned because it sounded better than " convalescing ". The jury didn't even get to know about the children having been fostered because when Jeremy had spoken of it he was accused of lying by RWB who'd disbelieved him.
It only took half a dozen of Sheila's psychotic " incidence " remarks to have been mentioned,for those who spoke about them to have been branded liars. This is why EVERYONE had stated that it would have been impossible for Sheila to have killed anyone.NOBODY had believed that there was anything other than a slight phase in which she was going through after a divorce. RWB had convinced everyone that there had been nothing wrong with Sheila and so his word was taken.
Even Dr.Ferguson didn't know what he was talking about when he diagnosed " mild " schizophrenia.
Not even the remark which Sheila had told BW was ever mentioned,that " all people are bad and should be killed ",or words to that effect. Is there any proof that Sheila ever said this if it wasn't shown/told to the jury ?

I'm beginning to wonder myself whether there was anything wrong with Sheila other than a suppressed anger which showed itself when she let off steam.It could have been her way of expressing herself like a child when throwing a tantrum. All the medication did would have been to worsen the problem. I think now that far too much has been made of her being psychotic,whereby it's been an uncontrolled temper which previously she hadn't been able to express,therefore left festering and smouldering and at some point needed an outlet.
Her outward appearance didn't give the impression of someone who was stricken with mental illness.There was no sign of illness of her body,so she was able to eat. Her hair didn't appear limp and lank and lifeless as in someone who is mentally ill either as it's the first thing which suffers,for obvious reasons,because she had lovely hair,so looked after it, and herself whereas those with severe mental health problems don't care how they look and don't even look after themselves.
So you're left pondering,well I am,as to whether Sheila was as mentally ill as has been reported. Sheila hadn't wanted to stay at WHF because it took her out of the way of the life which she'd got used to and enjoyed,which again,you wouldn't if you were sick or unaware of where you were because of confusion.
No wonder Sheila didn't take her medication-----------she didn't need it and would have come to realise herself that she didn't need it.
Her " psychosis " is sounding more and more like an excuse,both for herself and for Jeremy too.  This is where I need positive proof that Sheila had a mental health issue,i.e. brain-scan,because tantrums don't necessarily mean that a person has a mental illness, just a few sessions at an anger management clinic could have been just as successful,perhaps with a beta-blocker to curb anxiety.
Most of the time Sheila was in control of all her faculties. Which ISN'T the case of a schizophrenic who misses or doesn't take their medication. They need continuity to remain free from relapses.   

So, you know better than Dr.Ferguson Lookout? Can't quite believe that you make such sweeping statements without ANY evidence to back up your claims.

YOU need proof that she had a mental illness?? A brain scan is pretty much out of the question, given that she's long since dead. However, the fact that she was diagnosed and medicated for Schizophrenia by someone qualified to do so, means far more than the unqualified opinion of a hard nosed Bamber supporter.

How do you know what she looked like during the day? If her hair was lank or not, what kind of appetite she had? I can't believe you are seriously trying to suggest that Sheila wasn't ill and killed everyone because she had a massive tantrum? 

[Adam]

Sweeping statements without anything to back it up ?

Surely not from Lookout.

[lookout]

So, you know better than Dr.Ferguson Lookout? Can't quite believe that you make such sweeping statements without ANY evidence to back up your claims.

YOU need proof that she had a mental illness?? A brain scan is pretty much out of the question, given that she's long since dead. However, the fact that she was diagnosed and medicated for Schizophrenia by someone qualified to do so, means far more than the unqualified opinion of a hard nosed Bamber supporter.

How do you know what she looked like during the day? If her hair was lank or not, what kind of appetite she had? I can't believe you are seriously trying to suggest that Sheila wasn't ill and killed everyone because she had a massive tantrum? 

It's fairly obvious what I meant about her brain scan----------when she was hospitalized and alive.

If my memory serves me right,someone had seen Sheila with the boys during the day of the tragedies,and had remarked how WELL and HAPPY she'd looked,skipping along. Not exactly the description of a sick person as has been said many times before.

What's wrong in me having my own opinion ? It's not a hanging offence,is it ? You've got yours so what's the big deal ?

[lookout]

It's fairly obvious what I meant about her brain scan----------when she was hospitalized and alive.

If my memory serves me right,someone had seen Sheila with the boys during the day of the tragedies,and had remarked how WELL and HAPPY she'd looked,skipping along. Not exactly the description of a sick person as has been said many times before.

What's wrong in me having my own opinion ? It's not a hanging offence,is it ? You've got yours so what's the big deal ?

If you're going to believe every last thing the relatives had said,then you'd better start believing that RWB and co. NEVER believed that Sheila was ill,nor did RWB say there was any need for foster carers. It was all Jeremy's lies to put the blame on his sister.? 
Quite possibly when it did become clear that it was known Sheila had mental health issues,it could well have been then that BW changed tack with what she thought about Jeremy.