Author Topic: Police log contents, and position of bodies in photographs don't add up, CRIKEY.  (Read 31272 times)

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Offline mike tesko

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Except there is no evidence that he drove at top speed, the evidence from witnesses stated that he was driving very slowly.

I understand the point your making, but the fact remains that his call was made to police at 3.36am, and we know it lasted 9 or 10 minutes. If we say it lasted 10 minutes, his call to police ended at 3.46am. He then travelled to the scene arriving there at 3.52am. Considering that he had to get dressed, go downstairs to start his astra GTE car up, and that he slowed down for the police, arriving at the scene 3 or 4 minutes after police did, can only mean he got from A to B in under 5 minutes. Now, that suggests that on average, Jeremy had not been hanging around...
« Last Edit: June 22, 2015, 06:21:PM by mike tesko »
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

Offline Jane

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I understand the point your making, but the fact remains that his call was made to police at 3.36am, and we know it lasted 9 or 10 minutes. If wesay it lasted 10 minutes, his call to police ended at 3.46am. He then travelled to the scene arriving there at 3.52am. Considering that he had to get dressed, go downstairs to start his astra GTE car up, and that he slowed down for the police, arriving at the scene 3 or 4 minutes after police did, can only mean he got from A to B in under 5 minutes. Now, that suggests that on average, Jeremy had not been hanging around...


It also suggests that the call was made before 3.36.

Offline mike tesko

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It also suggests that the call was made before 3.36.

I do not believe it suggests that Jeremy's call to Chelmsford police was made any sooner than 3.36am, and I shall tell you for why. During the trial, both phone log contents were not disclosed, there was just a suggestion that Jeremy's call had been made 10 minutes sooner. The reason for this was because unless police addressed it, the fact that within moments of Ralph making his call to Jeremy, Ralph himself was making his call to the police (3.26am), and this would have confirmed why Jeremy got the engaged tone whilst trying to ring his father back at the scene, shortly after 3.26am. Police suggested Jeremy's call had been made 10 minutes earlier than 3.36am, so as to prevent a reliance upon his father making that (3.26am) earlier call to police, being relied upon to support Jeremy's account that once the brief call to Jeremy had ended, that Jeremy had indeed got a constant engaged tone,whilst trying to reestablish contact with his father. The actual contents of Ralph's 3.26am police log were not disclosed, nor were any of its content addressed or commented upon during trial. All that was mentioned, was the timing of Jeremy's call, that it had been made 10 minutes earlier at 3.26am. If the contradictory nature of both logs had been disclosed, all hell would almost certainly have broke loose...
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

Offline Caroline

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I do not believe it suggests that Jeremy's call to Chelmsford police was made any sooner than 3.36am, and I shall tell you for why. During the trial, both phone log contents were not disclosed, there was just a suggestion that Jeremy's call had been made 10 minutes sooner. The reason for this was because unless police addressed it, the fact that within moments of Ralph making his call to Jeremy, Ralph himself was making his call to the police (3.26am), and this would have confirmed why Jeremy got the engaged tone whilst trying to ring his father back at the scene, shortly after 3.26am. Police suggested Jeremy's call had been made 10 minutes earlier than 3.36am, so as to prevent a reliance upon his father making that (3.26am) earlier call to police, being relied upon to support Jeremy's account that once the brief call to Jeremy had ended, that Jeremy had indeed got a constant engaged tone,whilst trying to reestablish contact with his father. The actual contents of Ralph's 3.26am police log were not disclosed, nor were any of its content addressed or commented upon during trial. All that was mentioned, was the timing of Jeremy's call, that it had been made 10 minutes earlier at 3.26am. If the contradictory nature of both logs had been disclosed, all hell would almost certainly have broke loose...

Yes they were, the (so called) Nevill log was made available to the jury and West read from the (so called) Jeremy log.
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Offline scipio_usmc

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She had gone off her head previously, but not shot anyone on these previous occasions..

Yet allegedly Nevill was too scared to try to disarm her himself or get a weapon to challenger her with and instead allegedly called Jeremy to come disarm her.

And despite her not knowing how to use the murder weapon and never before shooting her Jeremy was allegedly too scared to go over as Nevill requested so instead of going over he called Julie and then called police. 

Politeness is organized indifference- Paul Valéry

Offline Jane

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I do not believe it suggests that Jeremy's call to Chelmsford police was made any sooner than 3.36am, and I shall tell you for why. During the trial, both phone log contents were not disclosed, there was just a suggestion that Jeremy's call had been made 10 minutes sooner. The reason for this was because unless police addressed it, the fact that within moments of Ralph making his call to Jeremy, Ralph himself was making his call to the police (3.26am), and this would have confirmed why Jeremy got the engaged tone whilst trying to ring his father back at the scene, shortly after 3.26am. Police suggested Jeremy's call had been made 10 minutes earlier than 3.36am, so as to prevent a reliance upon his father making that (3.26am) earlier call to police, being relied upon to support Jeremy's account that once the brief call to Jeremy had ended, that Jeremy had indeed got a constant engaged tone,whilst trying to reestablish contact with his father. The actual contents of Ralph's 3.26am police log were not disclosed, nor were any of its content addressed or commented upon during trial. All that was mentioned, was the timing of Jeremy's call, that it had been made 10 minutes earlier at 3.26am. If the contradictory nature of both logs had been disclosed, all hell would almost certainly have broke loose...


We've been round that particular loop on numerous occasions, Mike. NO way on God's earth will I believe, that when faced with a mad woman with a gun, Neville would phone his son -who did nothing for 36 minutes- BEFORE dialling 999, which, HAD he done so, it would have undoubtedly been available and couldn't have become "accidentally" lost, OR are we being asked to believe that Neville, too, went in search of the telephone directory, to look for the number, whilst Sheila was prowling around with the gun?   

Offline Caroline

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We've been round that particular loop on numerous occasions, Mike. NO way on God's earth will I believe, that when faced with a mad woman with a gun, Neville would phone his son -who did nothing for 36 minutes- BEFORE dialling 999, which, HAD he done so, it would have undoubtedly been available and couldn't have become "accidentally" lost, OR are we being asked to believe that Neville, too, went in search of the telephone directory, to look for the number, whilst Sheila was prowling around with the gun?


If Nevill was scared, he wouldn't have called Jeremy, anyone with common sense would have called the police.
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Offline mike tesko

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Yes they were, the (so called) Nevill log was made available to the jury and West read from the (so called) Jeremy log.

No, it wasn't, there was only one version of the contents, and that version was the 3.36am contents, accompanied by the claim that the commencement time of that log had been 10 minutes sooner, at 3.26am. There is no evidence that the actual contents of Ralph's phone log of 3.26am, was ever aired at any stage during the trial. If there is, post it up, let's have a look at the transcript...
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

Offline Jane

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If Nevill was scared, he wouldn't have called Jeremy, anyone with common sense would have called the police.


And he clearly was because Jeremy himself said he sounded PANICKED.

Offline scipio_usmc

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I do not believe it suggests that Jeremy's call to Chelmsford police was made any sooner than 3.36am, and I shall tell you for why. During the trial, both phone log contents were not disclosed, there was just a suggestion that Jeremy's call had been made 10 minutes sooner. The reason for this was because unless police addressed it, the fact that within moments of Ralph making his call to Jeremy, Ralph himself was making his call to the police (3.26am), and this would have confirmed why Jeremy got the engaged tone whilst trying to ring his father back at the scene, shortly after 3.26am. Police suggested Jeremy's call had been made 10 minutes earlier than 3.36am, so as to prevent a reliance upon his father making that (3.26am) earlier call to police, being relied upon to support Jeremy's account that once the brief call to Jeremy had ended, that Jeremy had indeed got a constant engaged tone,whilst trying to reestablish contact with his father. The actual contents of Ralph's 3.26am police log were not disclosed, nor were any of its content addressed or commented upon during trial. All that was mentioned, was the timing of Jeremy's call, that it had been made 10 minutes earlier at 3.26am. If the contradictory nature of both logs had been disclosed, all hell would almost certainly have broke loose...

Why do you keep distorting?  Both logs were discussed at trial.  The defense expressly cross examined West by stressing the differences and getting West to say he likely made a mistake when he recorded the time.

Bonnett's log was a trial exhibit.  West's log was used to refresh his memory and read into the record.  The trial exhibit stated West's call to Bonnett was at 3:26 and the police dispatched 3:35 which means Jeremy had to call West prior to 3:26.

If Jeremy called West at 3:36 police would not have been contacted around 3:30 which is when they say they were contacted and would not have left at 3:35 which is when they claim they left Witham.  Furthermore Jeremy would have gotten there far later than he did because including his time on hold his call lasted around ten minutes. You claim after he spoke to police he then called Julie which would have taken up more of his time so he could not have left until after the time he arrived. In the meantime Julie and her roommates say his call was before 3:30 and most likely around 3AM.       

What you are saying doesn't objectively fit you are intentionally trying to fit a square peg through a round hole because of bias.

That same bias makes you ignore that had Nevill actually phoned then police would have been told they were going there because of his call.  Jeremy would have been told of his call and would not have been asked for all the information he was asked for.

Scenario:

Mike phones his mom telling her about trouble.

Mike phones the police telling them about the same trouble.

Mike's Mom phones police to report that Mike told her about trouble and police were needed.

In this situation police would tell Mike's Mom that Mike already called so they already have the address and information and are taking care of it.  They would not pretend this is the first time they are hearing it, take down all the information again and even put her on hold to dispatch police yet again.

Police were told they were going because of Jeremy's call.  Police were told contact was never made with anyone in the house ever and the only reported contact was Nevill to Jeremy.  Police were told this at every stage- the initial police sent were told they were going because of Jeremy and no contact with the house could be made, the firearms officers were all told such including the second batch who received a briefing stating such and the detectives were all told such after they showed up.

There were 2 logs because 1 logged Jeremy's call to West and the other logged West's call to Bonnett. There is no mystery at all.

 
Politeness is organized indifference- Paul Valéry

Offline mike tesko

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If Nevill was scared, he wouldn't have called Jeremy, anyone with common sense would have called the police.
Ralph did call the police, within seconds of making his call to Jeremy. Jeremy tried to ring back to find out more, but he kept getting the engaged tone...
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

Offline Jane

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Ralph did call the police, within seconds of making his call to Jeremy. Jeremy tried to ring back to find out more, but he kept getting the engaged tone...



I guess he would if the receiver wasn't on the cradle.

Offline mike tesko

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There were 2 logs because 1 logged Jeremy's call to West and the other logged West's call to Bonnett. There is no mystery at all.

No provisions were in place to duplicate logs in the circumstances you have described...
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

Offline Jane

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No provisions were in place to duplicate logs in the circumstances you have described...



Surely as West and Bonnett occupied different offices they'd have written out individual logs.

Offline scipio_usmc

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No provisions were in place to duplicate logs in the circumstances you have described...

The recipient of a call makes a log.  West was the recipient of Jeremy's call.  Bonnett was the recipient of West's call.  Thus each kept a log for the call they received.   
Politeness is organized indifference- Paul Valéry