Author Topic: Russia - worrying?  (Read 363476 times)

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Offline Roch

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Re: Russia - worrying?
« Reply #3000 on: August 24, 2023, 11:45:AM »
Has the penny dropped yet..

It should have Steve. It's the same with us isn't it.  Dr David Kelly; and in the US Epstein.

Offline gringo

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Re: Russia - worrying?
« Reply #3001 on: August 24, 2023, 04:32:PM »
    It should be realised by now that whatever you are being led to believe is the least likely explanation of events. According to western media, Putin is guilty of every suspicious death in Russia and of every Russian anywhere in the world. It is a comical media driven caricature. Does everyone think that there is only one possible person who might have wanted Prigozhin dead? What do we really know about the whole coup/not coup and Putin's relationship with Prigozhin?
    Could there be other actors who might also want Prig dead? Would Putin, if it were him, choose such a messy and headline grabbing spectacular? Who would choose a method like that?
    The ridiculous western media and establishment created comic book caricature of Putin is the propaganda that few see beyond and it is this caricature that has been indoctrinated into western media consumers that causes them to unquestioningly believe any crime attributed to him. Ask questions, lots of questions, of every premise and "fact" in western reporting. The accusations and reporting on Putin is bizarre and fantastical. Without the pre-existing premise that many in the west have(ie. it goes without saying that Putin is a tyrannical, murderous thug and probably eats babies) these stories would be dismissed if about anyone else as simply not believable or remotely credible.
     In the grand scheme of things, it is also largely irrelevant. Nothing changes. The BRICS summit in South Africa and what is coming from that is of way more significance to geopolitical events than the sideshow of Prig's death. The catastrophe of the Ukrainian/NATO counter-offensive and the inevitability of Ukraine/NATO defeat in Ukraine are also ignored by Western media. Look back a few weeks at the predictions of how this much trumpeted Counter-oink was going to cut the land bridge to Crimea and bla bla. The longer this is propped up by NATO then the worse the terms will be. Minsk 2 is going to look like the deal of the century in comparison.
     
   

Offline Hardy Boy

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Re: Russia - worrying?
« Reply #3002 on: August 24, 2023, 04:34:PM »
    It should be realised by now that whatever you are being led to believe is the least likely explanation of events. According to western media, Putin is guilty of every suspicious death in Russia and of every Russian anywhere in the world. It is a comical media driven caricature. Does everyone think that there is only one possible person who might have wanted Prigozhin dead? What do we really know about the whole coup/not coup and Putin's relationship with Prigozhin?
    Could there be other actors who might also want Prig dead? Would Putin, if it were him, choose such a messy and headline grabbing spectacular? Who would choose a method like that?
    The ridiculous western media and establishment created comic book caricature of Putin is the propaganda that few see beyond and it is this caricature that has been indoctrinated into western media consumers that causes them to unquestioningly believe any crime attributed to him. Ask questions, lots of questions, of every premise and "fact" in western reporting. The accusations and reporting on Putin is bizarre and fantastical. Without the pre-existing premise that many in the west have(ie. it goes without saying that Putin is a tyrannical, murderous thug and probably eats babies) these stories would be dismissed if about anyone else as simply not believable or remotely credible.
     In the grand scheme of things, it is also largely irrelevant. Nothing changes. The BRICS summit in South Africa and what is coming from that is of way more significance to geopolitical events than the sideshow of Prig's death. The catastrophe of the Ukrainian/NATO counter-offensive and the inevitability of Ukraine/NATO defeat in Ukraine are also ignored by Western media. Look back a few weeks at the predictions of how this much trumpeted Counter-oink was going to cut the land bridge to Crimea and bla bla. The longer this is propped up by NATO then the worse the terms will be. Minsk 2 is going to look like the deal of the century in comparison.
     
   
I'm not convinced he is Dead Gringo?  The Russians wasn't the Masters of Chess for know reason.

Offline gringo

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Re: Russia - worrying?
« Reply #3003 on: August 24, 2023, 05:00:PM »
I'm not convinced he is Dead Gringo?  The Russians wasn't the Masters of Chess for know reason.
   I agree, HB. I'm not convinced that he is dead, but regardless it is irrelevant to the wider scheme of things. The chess board is very active at the moment and everyone is focusing on an exchange of pawns.

Offline Hardy Boy

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Re: Russia - worrying?
« Reply #3004 on: August 24, 2023, 05:15:PM »
   I agree, HB. I'm not convinced that he is dead, but regardless it is irrelevant to the wider scheme of things. The chess board is very active at the moment and everyone is focusing on an exchange of pawns.
I tend not to get too involved in the Discussion about the War Gringo, although i think the Guard in Russia Has changed, i'll never forget the Help the Russians gave the miners during the Miners Strike when Thatcher wanted them to eat Grass.

Offline gringo

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Re: Russia - worrying?
« Reply #3005 on: August 24, 2023, 05:22:PM »
I tend not to get too involved in the Discussion about the War Gringo, although i think the Guard in Russia Has changed, i'll never forget the Help the Russians gave the miners during the Miners Strike when Thatcher wanted them to eat Grass.
    Our real enemies are the same people attempting to convince us our Putin (or whoever the current boogeyman is) is our enemy. He is the President of Russia- the media are meant to hold our governments to account- not Russia's.

Offline gringo

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Re: Russia - worrying?
« Reply #3006 on: August 24, 2023, 05:25:PM »
I tend not to get too involved in the Discussion about the War Gringo, although i think the Guard in Russia Has changed, i'll never forget the Help the Russians gave the miners during the Miners Strike when Thatcher wanted them to eat Grass.
    The politicians and "leaders" we have now even make Thatcher and her ilk look like a "golden age", HB.

Offline Hardy Boy

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Re: Russia - worrying?
« Reply #3007 on: August 24, 2023, 05:36:PM »
    The politicians and "leaders" we have now even make Thatcher and her ilk look like a "golden age", HB.
Ha Ha, it Probably works South of the Coal Fields.  I took a family from the South Coast a visit to the Coal mine i worked at about,  6 months before it closed, they had never heard that the miners had been on Strike in 85.

Offline Hardy Boy

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Re: Russia - worrying?
« Reply #3008 on: August 24, 2023, 05:40:PM »
    Our real enemies are the same people attempting to convince us our Putin (or whoever the current boogeyman is) is our enemy. He is the President of Russia- the media are meant to hold our governments to account- not Russia's.
He's been dying for two years.  It will only end when they get around the Table, there will have to be concessions from a lot of people.  Some Countries are fed up with the Power of the Greenback and it's sanctions an it's starting to show.

Offline gringo

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Re: Russia - worrying?
« Reply #3009 on: August 24, 2023, 06:07:PM »
He's been dying for two years.  It will only end when they get around the Table, there will have to be concessions from a lot of people.  Some Countries are fed up with the Power of the Greenback and it's sanctions an it's starting to show.
   There is more truth in your succinct summing up of the situation than will ever be told in any mainstream outlet. Everyone knows-and still they lie.

Offline gringo

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Re: Russia - worrying?
« Reply #3010 on: August 24, 2023, 06:15:PM »
He's been dying for two years.  It will only end when they get around the Table, there will have to be concessions from a lot of people.  Some Countries are fed up with the Power of the Greenback and it's sanctions an it's starting to show.
    At the moment everyone is getting round the table, whilst the collective west still refuse to accept reality, and creating new systems without the West. It would be better if your advice of accepting concessions and talking was understood by our "leaders". In truth our so-called "leaders" do understand exactly what you have said. Their actions now display for all to see who it is they really serve.
     
     

Offline Hardy Boy

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Re: Russia - worrying?
« Reply #3011 on: August 24, 2023, 06:22:PM »
    At the moment everyone is getting round the table, whilst the collective west still refuse to accept reality, and creating new systems without the West. It would be better if your advice of accepting concessions and talking was understood by our "leaders". In truth our so-called "leaders" do understand exactly what you have said. Their actions now display for all to see who it is they really serve.
     
   
I would think Gringo, feelers have and are being put about, i do think there is a lot of discussions at lower levels.  I see Nato Sec, put something out the other week about concessions of Ukraine land for Ukraine Membership to Nato?  I know it will have to be at higher level, but they are put out for a reason, sometimes for a cushioning effect. 

Offline Hardy Boy

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Re: Russia - worrying?
« Reply #3012 on: August 24, 2023, 06:23:PM »
The World has to have Balance, it cannot just be dominated by one Country, this Guy in Charge of USA abolutly hates us anyway and he doesn't hide the fact.
« Last Edit: August 24, 2023, 06:25:PM by Hardy Boy »

Offline Roch

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Re: Russia - worrying?
« Reply #3013 on: August 24, 2023, 06:30:PM »
..this Guy in Charge of USA..

I'm not a fan of Trump and wouldn't have him back. But Biden is like some weird corpse that they have somehow managed to make walk and talk.  Is he a real live human being? It's hard to tell.

The truth is, there never will be any good option for president just like there won't ever be any good option for PM. It's not allowed.

But Biden - I can't believe what I'm seeing.


Offline gringo

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Re: Russia - worrying?
« Reply #3014 on: August 24, 2023, 06:49:PM »
I would think Gringo, feelers have and are being put about, i do think there is a lot of discussions at lower levels.  I see Nato Sec, put something out the other week about concessions of Ukraine land for Ukraine Membership to Nato?  I know it will have to be at higher level, but they are put out for a reason, sometimes for a cushioning effect.
    NATO are looking for a way out and feelers are being put out but my feeling is that any terms that would be acceptable to Russia are less than being currently offered. There is zero doubt that Russia are effectively dictating the terms of any surrender(which for diplomacy will be called an agreement). After Minsk the next terms offered by Russia will be much harsher to Ukraine/NATO.
     Defeat in Ukraine will have huge consequences going forward in NATO/EU countries. I suspect that Russia will give the West a "diplomatic" way out-but the security proposal put forward by Russia in December 2021 will be "agreed" to. NATO media can claim they prevented Russia from invading Europe, then declare victory and go home.

https://www.reuters.com/world/russia-unveils-security-guarantees-says-western-response-not-encouraging-2021-12-17/
« Last Edit: August 24, 2023, 06:54:PM by gringo »