The main prosecution forensic case

[scipio_usmc]

Does anyone know how heavy the rifle was ?

Unloaded about 6.75 pounds.

[lookout]

http://www.eme421.com/anschutz.html
Here it is Lookout 

Thanks Maggie.So approximately 8lbs or thereabouts-------------not heavy really.

[maggie]

Thanks Maggie.So approximately 8lbs or thereabouts-------------not heavy really.

No not heavy, new born baby weight.

[lookout]

No not heavy, new born baby weight.

That's right Maggie,with the weight being " spread out " taking in the length of the rifle as opposed to a solid lump.

[tyler]

Just an observation as I had never noticed before,but Collin's and Deldago's first statements match almost word for word. Certainly backs up the notion that the raid team's statements were somewhat orchestrated. Interesting too that not one of them was required to testify at the trial.

[Adam]

Just an observation as I had never noticed before,but Collin's and Deldago's first statements match almost word for word. Certainly backs up the notion that the raid team's statements were somewhat orchestrated. Interesting too that not one of them was required to testify at the trial.

Ohhhhh.

[scipio_usmc]

Just an observation as I had never noticed before,but Collin's and Deldago's first statements match almost word for word. Certainly backs up the notion that the raid team's statements were somewhat orchestrated. Interesting too that not one of them was required to testify at the trial.

If they vary a little such as one cop using a different tense that is jumped on to suggest someone is lying as opposed to sloppy wording but if their general observations are the same (and they should be generally the same if both are accurate) then it is claimed they are orchestrated.  There is no way to win...

[Jan]

If they vary a little such as one cop using a different tense that is jumped on to suggest someone is lying as opposed to sloppy wording but if their general observations are the same (and they should be generally the same if both are accurate) then it is claimed they are orchestrated.  There is no way to win...

If you check them they are nearly word for word - not the same as similar observations in ones own words.

[guest154]

If they vary a little such as one cop using a different tense that is jumped on to suggest someone is lying as opposed to sloppy wording but if their general observations are the same (and they should be generally the same if both are accurate) then it is claimed they are orchestrated.  There is no way to win...

God forbid the tense was different or something wasn't exactly the same, would be  people still shouting WITCH WITCH WITCH.

[tyler]

If they vary a little such as one cop using a different tense that is jumped on to suggest someone is lying as opposed to sloppy wording but if their general observations are the same (and they should be generally the same if both are accurate) then it is claimed they are orchestrated.  There is no way to win...

No,it is not that their general observations were the same. I wouldnt expect them to be necessarily so,as people are obviously individuals and will obviously observe different things. Their statements are almost a carbon copy of each,almost word for word. I had thought I had made the mistake of reading the same officers statement twice and had to recheck. Im not suggesting either were lying,more a case of the statements were made for them and not by them. There is a similiar case with one of JM's statements,whereby legal observers questioned why it was written as in the third person. Its not really acceptable since a police statement is a legal document.

[scipio_usmc]

No,it is not that their general observations were the same. I wouldnt expect them to be necessarily so,as people are obviously individuals and will obviously observe different things. Their statements are almost a carbon copy of each,almost word for word. I had thought I had made the mistake of reading the same officers statement twice and had to recheck. Im not suggesting either were lying,more a case of the statements were made for them and not by them. There is a similiar case with one of JM's statements,whereby legal observers questioned why it was written as in the third person. Its not really acceptable since a police statement is a legal document.

A police statement is much like an affidavit.  People are asked to address certain things with their statements or affidavit.  For example AE was asked certain things about Sheila to put down in her first statement.  There is nothing wrong with having someone else prepare a statement or affidavit so long as the information in it is truthful though there is no indication someone else prepared the statements based on what they verbally said. A common thing legally is to listen to someone verbally, record in writing what they said that is legally relevant then to have them look over and sign those portions.  If you instead just let them write as much as they want then you get long rambling statements with a lot of useless information which is not what a statement is for. 



   

[guest154]

A police statement is much like an affidavit.  People are asked to address certain things with their statements or affidavit.  For example AE was asked certain things about Sheila to put down in her first statement.  There is nothing wrong with having someone else prepare a statement or affidavit so long as the information in it is truthful though there is no indication someone else prepared the statements based on what they verbally said. A common thing legally is to listen to someone verbally, record in writing what they said that is legally relevant then to have them look over and sign those portions.  If you instead just let them write as much as they want then you get long rambling statements with a lot of useless information which is not what a statement is for. 



 

This is what happened when I witnessed an assault. I was questioned and the policeman wrote the statement, which I then had to read over and sign. He included only the important parts.

[Caroline]

This is what happened when I witnessed an assault. I was questioned and the policeman wrote the statement, which I then had to read over and sign. He included only the important parts.

I think that's basically how it's done.

[scipio_usmc]

I think that's basically how it's done.

Certain statements by AE were short and direct.  Others were very long. Giving so much leeway like they did to put in anything she wanted is unusual.  Many of the extraneous details provided are interesting to people like us but not of much use to the investigators.

The point of documenting something in a statement is to be able to show it to others and all involved in the case to be able to share so you don't have to have 10 people asking the same person the same questions over and over again.  It is in the file and can be shared with anyone on the case who needs that particular info.  If they don't find the answer they need then they might have to interview the person again though anyway. It also helps to document key things in writing in case people end up changing their story.  Note how Jeremy changed his story to police about Sheila firing all guns int he house.  Had they got that in writing then it would have been even stronger later to hit him with it than just having the police claim he said it.  He claimed he didn't say it but if they showed him in writing that he did say it then he would have to have tried to explain that away.