The reason the police framed Jeremy ?

[Mr. Gee]

Ahem,ahem,yes,I forgot

He is a lawyer of sorts lookout, or kind of. He was was they called a JAG in the Marines. The judge's advocate division. So he does know quite a bit about the law. But he is not a very good investigator as he is not suspicious enough about people.

[scipio_usmc]

But when you do break down those components the mostly are all possible .

E.g
Jeremy could have gone out to shoot rabbits
No-one has dis-proved the call from Neville to Jeremy
He could have not realised how serious things were and called the local police in error
He could have called Julie because he was confused and not sure what to do .
Julie could have embellished her testimony for "the noble cause"
The Dickinson report explained the lack of blood on the night dress ( and anyway  it was destroyed so can not be re-tested)
If Sheila was still alive she could have washed her hands.
 etc etc

Saying they are theoretically possible is not enough to establish reasonable doubt.  It is necessary to establish a REASONABLE LIKELIHOOD such things occurred not that it is theoretically possible.

Time and again you and your other Jeremy supporting comrades ignore:

1) It is not reasonably likely that Sheila could have shot herself and not have gotten GSR on her gown and hand that pulled the trigger. It is imposisble for her to change her clothes and wash after killing herself.

2) It is not reasonably likely that the fatal shot would not result in drawback which means her blood had to be EITHER in the muzzle of the weapon or if the moderator was used then in the moderator.  It was in the moderator but not the muzzle so that proves the moderator was attached when she was killed   

3) It is not reasonably likely that Sheila could have killed her parents without getting their blood spatter on her clothing and body. There would have been medium velocity spatter from Nevill and high velocity spatter from both. It is not reasonably likely that she would not have gotten GSR on her gown as well.  It is not reasonably likely someone who decided to commit suicide would wash and change their clothing but if she had done so her blood/GSR stianed clothing would have to have been at the scene but no such clothing was present so that means there is no evidence to suggest such occurred.  The burden is on Jeremy's defenders to produce evidence of such.

4) After Sheila's death she was moved flat and the bible placed in a pool of wet blood that formed after her death.  It is impossible for her to have done either after her death this proves someone else was there at the scene staging things.

Jeremy's supporters intentionally ignore this evidence but have no way to refute it.  It is necessary to refute it to make it go away. 
 
As for some of your other tripe-

A call from Nevill to Jeremy is not reasonably likely to have occurred:

A) The evidence proves the shooting started in the master bedroom with both parents being present and both being shot.  There was no phone in the room so no way for Nevill to call anyone prior to the shooting started.

B) For the call to have happened Sheila had to wake up the family, be running around with the gun, allow Nevill to make a call and only intervene at the end by hanging it up and then taking it off the hook, June had to stay in bed through all of it as did the kids (why would she do that?), then Sheila had to decide to kill them both in the bedroom and her father up to the bedroom to shoot both at the same time. Why would Sheila do any of these things? Why would June stay in bed?  Saying it is theoretically possible peopel did senseless things for no reaosn that do not comport with the claim of her raging with a gun doesn't make them likely. You have to be downright stupid to actually believe such things might have occurred.

C) Nevill had no reason at all to call Jeremy to help disarm her.  She didn't get along with Jeremy he woudl make matters worse.  Nevill was physically stronger than Jeremy so had a better ability to physically disarm her as well as to calm her down and he was actually present so had the need and opportunity to disarm her. Why would he wait 20 minutes for Jeremy to come try to disarm her instead of doing it himself?  For that matter the kitchen had knives, guns and other weapons he could have used if he was too scared to try to disarm her with his bare bands.  Jeremy had an answering machine and would not have even answered his phone. If so scared he neede dhelp he would have dialed 999 not called Jeremy.

D) Jeremy's reactions are not those of someone who received a call from Nevill as claimed. Someone receiving such a call would either rush over or immediately dial 999 (or call 999 then rush over).  He didn't do so. He never called 999 instead he called Julie before police though no person in his place would call her at all.  After that he waited a while before calling police and didn't dial 999 he looked up 2 different stations int he phone book wasing more time. Then he lied and told police he called them immediately after getting off the phone with Nevill though he called Julie before he ever called police and called her quite a while before police at that.  POlice wanted him at the scene and instead of beating them there he went slow so that police could beat him there by several minutes so they coudl say they beat him.

E) At the scene Jeremy didn't prompt police to go in nor did he go to the door or try to at least look in the windows like someone in his place would.  Instead he was busy lying to police telling them how Sheila fired all the guns int he house and could use them all and was a big threat because she was nuts.

F) Julie admits Jeremy had been planning to kill his parents, told her that was the night he was goign to do it then claled her right after to let her know it was done and to try to bolster his fake alibi by having her say he called her to say he received a call from Nevill and was worried. 

No rational person would find there was a reasonable likelihood that Nevill called him.  The only people who suggest such are irrational supporters who have irraitonal reaosns for supporting Jeremy.  Despite tremendous prodding no such supporters have come up with anything to actually support a call having been made.  Instead just the weak argument it still is somehow theoretically possible because Julie could have lied, and all the people involved could have done things that make no sense.

It is not reasonably likely that Jeremy took out the gun to shoot rabbits:

A) It was late and getting dark so the claim he saw rabbits by the barn is not credible but worse he can't even keep his story straight and initially claimed he heard them by the barn.

B) He was NEVER known to do that before ever.  SO the first time in his life he went to shoot rabbits was supposedly right before the murders

C) His claim he found the gun with the moderator and scope removed because Nevill removed them is not credible.  There is no evidence to suggest Nevill even used the gun, it was purchased for Jeremy Nevill used a .410 to shoot vermin.  There wa sno reaosn for Nevill to remove the scope and moderator though.  His claim it was because it didn't fit int he closet with them attached was a lie.  He later changed this claim to it didn't fit int he case with them attached but there is no evidence Nevill ever removed the accessories to put the gun in a case.  It was found by AP in the closet with both attached.

D) Nevill and June would have put the gun away not left it out for the kids to find. June used the phone that he supposedly dumped the bullets out next to.  She would not have left them there either.  But there is stronger evidence these bullets were staged after the murders.  He claimed he took a box of 48-50 rounds and dumped them out and used them to load the gun to go after the rabbits.  He said he fired no rounds the rabbits got away.  This was the ammo supply supposedly used to shoot the victims.  25 shots were fired.  That means 23-25 rounds shoudl have remained.  There were 30 though remaining. Why would the killer use 18-20 rounds from the kitchen supply and though 30 remained there- decide to go to the closet  to get 5-7 more?  Quite clearly a totla of 30 bullets were staged after the murders to bolster his fake claim he took the gun and bullets out to shoot rabbits and left them out to pretend there was a weapon of opposirtunity for Sheila to find since she would not have sought the weapon and ammo out herself.

 
Jeremy supporters live in fantasy land while the rest of us who face his guilt live in reality.



     

[scipio_usmc]

He is a lawyer of sorts lookout, or kind of. He was was they called a JAG in the Marines. The judge's advocate division. So he does know quite a bit about the law. But he is not a very good investigator as he is not suspicious enough about people.

On the contrary I am a great investigator and suspicious of the right people.

Jeremy supporters ignroe all the evidenc eproving his guilt which is where rational suspicion should be given the evidence and hold out irraitonal hope that somewhere there is evidence everyoen is unaware of that could refute the evidence against him.

How could Sheila kill herself without getting GSR on her gown and blood in the muzzle of the weapon?  How could she move her body and place the bible in a pool of her blood that formed after her death?  How could she shoot Nevill and June without getting GSR and their spatter on her clothing and body?  How could she beat Nevill without getting his spatter on her clothing and body?

These are the questions an intelligent, reasonable investigator asks.

The fact you and other defenders ignore such demonstrates who is totally lacking in investigative areas.

[Mr. Gee]

On the contrary I am a great investigator and suspicious of the right people.

Jeremy supporters ignroe all the evidenc eproving his guilt which is where rational suspicion should be given the evidence and hold out irraitonal hope that somewhere there is evidence everyoen is unaware of that could refute the evidence against him.

How could Sheila kill herself without getting GSR on her gown and blood in the muzzle of the weapon?  How could she move her body and place the bible in a pool of her blood that formed after her death?  How could she shoot Nevill and June without getting GSR and their spatter on her clothing and body?  How could she beat Nevill without getting his spatter on her clothing and body?

These are the questions an intelligent, reasonable investigator asks.

The fact you and other defenders ignore such demonstrates who is totally lacking in investigative areas.

So mr. rational "great" investigator why are you not the least bit suspicious as to why the police are so umwilling to release those things held under PII even when commanded to by the CCRC?
Indeed there is evidence that you are extremely naive in that you tend to gullibly drink in every word of Mugford's testimony. That is not a sign of a "great" investigator. Me? I'm suspicious of everyone, even you.

[nugnug]

yes the ccrc no less.

[scipio_usmc]

So mr. rational "great" investigator why are you not the least bit suspicious as to why the police are so umwilling to release those things held under PII even when commanded to by the CCRC?
Indeed there is evidence that you are extremely naive in that you tend to gullibly drink in every word of Mugford's testimony. That is not a sign of a "great" investigator. Me? I'm suspicious of everyone, even you.

There is nothing that was ordered by the CCRC to be relased that wasn't.  The claims ther eis so much being hodden under PII has not in the least bit been substantiated. There is WILD SPECULATION about there being considerable materials withheld under PII.

The limited materials held under pII doesn't concern me at all because a court approves such regardless of what Jeremy's absurd supporters claim and the things that matter to a defense attorney were actually turned over.  The places a defense attorney would look for evidence was turned over long ago.

Those holding out hope that ther eis evidence hidden by PII revelaing police destroyed bloody/GSR stained clothing that Sheila changed out of, removed blood evidence from the rifle and planted the evidence in the moderator are living in a fantasy world.

As for Julie's testimony, the parts that matter are all not only credible but corroborated by evidence.

The simple tryuth is that you admitted you can't refute any of the evidence that proves Jeremy's guilt and thus ran away only to return again under a new name where you make childish remarks against me but still have nothing at all to refute the evidence that convicted Jeremy.

There is no rational reason for you to doubt his guil and you don't do so based on any rational reaosn only irraitonal ones.

[Jan]

"As for Julie's testimony, the parts that matter are all not only credible but corroborated by evidence."


what "evidence" is that then?

[nugnug]

There is nothing that was ordered by the CCRC to be relased that wasn't.  The claims ther eis so much being hodden under PII has not in the least bit been substantiated. There is WILD SPECULATION about there being considerable materials withheld under PII.

The limited materials held under pII doesn't concern me at all because a court approves such regardless of what Jeremy's absurd supporters claim and the things that matter to a defense attorney were actually turned over.  The places a defense attorney would look for evidence was turned over long ago.

Those holding out hope that ther eis evidence hidden by PII revelaing police destroyed bloody/GSR stained clothing that Sheila changed out of, removed blood evidence from the rifle and planted the evidence in the moderator are living in a fantasy world.

As for Julie's testimony, the parts that matter are all not only credible but corroborated by evidence.

The simple tryuth is that you admitted you can't refute any of the evidence that proves Jeremy's guilt and thus ran away only to return again under a new name where you make childish remarks against me but still have nothing at all to refute the evidence that convicted Jeremy.

There is no rational reason for you to doubt his guil and you don't do so based on any rational reaosn only irraitonal ones.

well if theres nothing much of intrest there they shouldent mind turning it over when asked to should they.

[scipio_usmc]

"As for Julie's testimony, the parts that matter are all not only credible but corroborated by evidence."
what "evidence" is that then?

Evidence that Jeremy:

1) Sheila can't have shot anyone else

2) Sheila can't have shot herself

3) that Jeremy hid the phone in advance of the murders and after the murders staged bullets to support his bogus story of leaving the gun and bullets out

4) that the call from Nevill was made up to support his alibi just like Julie testified to

5) Jeremy's call to Julie before phoning police

6) calling Julie around 6AM to tell her not to go to work so he could have her speak with police to confirm he called her around 3:30AM and she could pretend he had actually received a call from Nevill and was worried.

All of that supports her overall account of Jeremy telling her he wanted to kill his family, that he told her tonight was the night, called her around 3 AM to tell her it was done and try to get her to support his alibi of Nevill claling him then calling.

There is other evidence of course this is the most signficant though.

[Mr. Gee]

There is nothing that was ordered by the CCRC to be relased that wasn't.  The claims ther eis so much being hodden under PII has not in the least bit been substantiated. There is WILD SPECULATION about there being considerable materials withheld under PII.

The limited materials held under pII doesn't concern me at all because a court approves such regardless of what Jeremy's absurd supporters claim and the things that matter to a defense attorney were actually turned over.  The places a defense attorney would look for evidence was turned over long ago.

Those holding out hope that ther eis evidence hidden by PII revelaing police destroyed bloody/GSR stained clothing that Sheila changed out of, removed blood evidence from the rifle and planted the evidence in the moderator are living in a fantasy world.

As for Julie's testimony, the parts that matter are all not only credible but corroborated by evidence.

The simple tryuth is that you admitted you can't refute any of the evidence that proves Jeremy's guilt and thus ran away only to return again under a new name where you make childish remarks against me but still have nothing at all to refute the evidence that convicted Jeremy.

There is no rational reason for you to doubt his guil and you don't do so based on any rational reaosn only irraitonal ones.

Are you calling ngb a liar then? For he knows that the CCRC requested material to be released that was being held under PII but the police categorically refused to do so. Furthermore the CCRC refused to use their powers in order to compel them to do so. Also if you were as good an investigator as you claim to be you would without doubt and indeed should be interested in everything held under PII if access to it is denied. It just goes to show just how bad an investigator you are. Because you follow the rest of the gullible sheep who believe everything they are told.

[nugnug]

nggb knows how many documents are held by the ccrc.

[Mr. Gee]

Evidence that Jeremy:

1) Sheila can't have shot anyone else

2) Sheila can't have shot herself

3) that Jeremy hid the phone in advance of the murders and after the murders staged bullets to support his bogus story of leaving the gun and bullets out

4) that the call from Nevill was made up to support his alibi just like Julie testified to

5) Jeremy's call to Julie before phoning police

6) calling Julie around 6AM to tell her not to go to work so he could have her speak with police to confirm he called her around 3:30AM and she could pretend he had actually received a call from Nevill and was worried.

All of that supports her overall account of Jeremy telling her he wanted to kill his family, that he told her tonight was the night, called her around 3 AM to tell her it was done and try to get her to support his alibi of Nevill claling him then calling.

There is other evidence of course this is the most signficant though.

All speculation on your part as there is no evidence either way to prove or disprove a telephone call was made or not made. You can offer this up as speculation, but not as proven evidence.

[scipio_usmc]

Are you calling ngb a liar then? For he knows that the CCRC requested material to be released that was being held under PII but the police categorically refused to do so. Furthermore the CCRC refused to use their powers in order to compel them to do so. Also if you were as good an investigator as you claim to be you would without doubt and indeed should be interested in everything held under PII if access to it is denied. It just goes to show just how bad an investigator you are. Because you follow the rest of the gullible sheep who believe everything they are told.

I saw a post by NGB where he alleged the CCRC failed to use powers it had at its disposal to require the government to provide them with documents subject to a PII nondisclosure order.  So what he claimed is that the CCRC coudl demand the docuemnts if they want and force disclosure but didn't do so nto that the government has refused to turn them over despite the CCRC requiring it.

I have seen nothing as far as evidence regarding how much materails ar ewithheld under PII just some made up figure of 200 boxes seems to be bandied about. At any rate, you clearly distorted NGB's own words with regard to same.

You should have learned by now your BS will nto work on me I am 50 steps ahead of you at any given time.

[nugnug]

well nggb will know how many there are.

[Mr. Gee]

I saw a post by NGB where he alleged the CCRC failed to use powers it had at its disposal to require the government to provide them with documents subject to a PII nondisclosure order.  So what he claimed is that the CCRC coudl demand the docuemnts if they want and force disclosure but didn't do so nto that the government has refused to turn them over despite the CCRC requiring it.

I have seen nothing as far as evidence regarding how much materails ar ewithheld under PII just some made up figure of 200 boxes seems to be bandied about. At any rate, you clearly distorted NGB's own words with regard to same.

You should have learned by now your BS will nto work on me I am 50 steps ahead of you at any given time.

How have I distorted ngb's claim? You have just confirmed what I said word for word. On the contrary you have tried to put words into my mouth by saying I have claimed there are 40 boxed of evidence. I have never said any such thing. I have just told you in the most honest words possible (I know that you are unfamiliar with the word honesty) what I though ngb said and indeed you yourself have just confirmed those words.