Jeremy's court testimony:

[Adam]

Robbed the caravan site to show security problems.

I thought he used a key to get in ? So it shows nothing. Apart from anyone with a key can get in. And he did not inform anyone of this. Otherwise they would have asked for the money back.


'He should not have spent the money.  And did so out of greed'.

Honest. But he could not really say anything else.

[Adam]

He rang Julie for a 'friendly ear'.

Yes people are often friendly when being woken at 3am.

[Adam]

He drove slowly to WHF so he would arrive after the police.

But why ?

[scipio_usmc]

What you don't see of the interview though is that they probably got very aggressive with him as well? I've seen it on here tonight, one person gets aggressive and winds them up. The other person responds with equal aggression then that person gets the blame instead of the one who instigated it. Then some old stuff is brought up to show that they are the real aggressors.
When I apologise to someone I usually mean it and forget all past transgressions. But there are some on the forum who simply relish the opportunity to bring up past offenses. These people are the ones that I detest and will no longer communicate with them.

It was not very aggressive and they didn't ask him many quesitons they should have and could have.  They are questions that could have caused him got him to say even mor eincrimianting things.

For instance to ask how he knew how much money was in his fathers wallet.  To ask why he said the rifle could not fit in the closet with the moderator and scope attached.  to ask why no one saw him hunt vermit ever if he routinly did it.  To point out he earlier in the interrogation said he had not used the gun the week prior to themurders and ask if he change dhis story to prevent Anythng from being th elast to use it.  To press him on why Nevill would remove the scope and remind him he earlier verbally told police he removed it prior to the murders.Also to note the phone had nothing wrong with it and ask why he hid it and replaced it with the bedroom phone.  There are plenty of things they could have asked to really get him going that they didn't.  The main area it got heated what when he didn't want to give a definite answer of whether he called Julie or police first.  He said he stuck by his ealrier statement instead of wanting to commit to a poistion at that point in time.

He asked a number of times to see his statements because he wasn't sure what he wrote and wanted to read them so that he would not contradict himself but they would not show him.

"Koppers let me see what I wrote so I know what I shoudl tell you now without contradicting myself." Good grief his interrogation did not go well for him at all, the only bright spot for the defense is he didn't end up confessing during it.  That's about the only way he could have done worse.

[Mr. Gee]

Adam please calm down lad. You're beginning to sound a bit like Hitler with these rants. We get your point really we do.

[Adam]

He was experienced with guns and the murder weapon. Sheila had limited experience with guns.

2 + 2 = ?

[Mr. Gee]

It was not very aggressive and they didn't ask him many quesitons they should have and could have.  They are questions that could have caused him got him to say even mor eincrimianting things.

For instance to ask how he knew how much money was in his fathers wallet.  To ask why he said the rifle could not fit in the closet with the moderator and scope attached.  to ask why no one saw him hunt vermit ever if he routinly did it.  To point out he earlier in the interrogation said he had not used the gun the week prior to themurders and ask if he change dhis story to prevent Anythng from being th elast to use it.  To press him on why Nevill would remove the scope and remind him he earlier verbally told police he removed it prior to the murders.Also to note the phone had nothing wrong with it and ask why he hid it and replaced it with the bedroom phone.  There are plenty of things they could have asked to really get him going that they didn't.  The main area it got heated what when he didn't want to give a definite answer of whether he called Julie or police first.  He said he stuck by his ealrier statement instead of wanting to commit to a poistion at that point in time.

He asked a number of times to see his statements because he wasn't sure what he wrote and wanted to read them so that he would not contradict himself but they would not show him.

"Koppers let me see what I wrote so I know what I shoudl tell you now without contradicting myself." Good grief his interrogation did not go well for him at all, the only bright spot for the defense is he didn't end up confessing during it.  That's about the only way he could have done worse.

How do you know that? That is usually the tactics of the cops. But those tactics never get written down. But it happens I can assure you. So you cannot with any certainty say that it wasn't very aggressive.

[Adam]

He would 'antagonise' June as there was a lack of understanding.

That must have been when he put rats in her car.

Wilkes's book says they basically stopped communicating from 1978. Obviously Jeremy communicated when he needed financing for trips abroad, and the odd £1,500.00 sent to him.

[guest154]

Adam please calm down lad. You're beginning to sound a bit like Hitler with these rants. We get your point really we do.

Not ssure about Hitler, but he is starting to sound like Barney the Dinosuar with his 2 + 2 posts.

[Mr. Gee]

He would 'antagonise' June as there was a lack of understanding.

That must have been when he put rats in her car.

Wilkes's book says they basically stopped communicating from 1978. Obviously Jeremy communicated when he needed financing for trips abroad, and the odd £1,500.00 sent to him.

Keep it up mate, you're on a roll. Not many people are reading it because you've said it so many times before. We get your point. You think he's guilty. Understood. But please do not keep patronising us.

[scipio_usmc]

I would have thought that the weapon being a long gun as opposed to a pistol that the GSR would be expelled from the barrel towards her thus landing on her neck rather than her gown. The same thing happening when shooting the others. Therefore if she was shot even by another person she must have had GSR on her person somewhere?

A cloud of GSR forms when the primer is ignoted. The cloud is formed near the area where the firing pin ignites the primer so near the chamber of the weapon.

If the shooter is holding the rifle eye level it will get mostly on their face, hair, hands and shoulder/neck are of their clothing. If they are firing from the hip then moreso on the middle of their clothing and even upper pants. 

If you are hugging the weapon to shoot yourself the main area it will be is again the middle body area.  That area was not stained with blood so blood would not have been able to conceal it.

What you are thinking of a scoming out of the muzzle of the weapon is unburned gunpower. You are right that unburned gunpower ill only hit someone at close range.  Unburned gunpower will singe the wound of a contact shot.  It also can still get in the wound of a close shot. The further away the less concentrated the patter of stippling will be but unburned gunpower will not travel more than a few feet so when firing from a distance none will be observed and if it is present it indicates the killer fired within several feet. Depending on the pattern for the stippling you can try to narrow down the distance more.

The fatal wound had burning that indicated it was a contact wound.   

The initial wound not being a contact wound presents a problem as well. The gun was held nearly perpendicular to Sheila's neck. It was not a perfect 90 degree angle but the angle was slight.  The bullet went through the front of the nect to her vertebrae at only a slight angle.  Holding the gun away from your neck at nearly a 90 degree angle is pretty strange. It is easier to hold and to shoot when you are at contact range.  The further from your body the harder it is to pull the trigger. Jamming it under your neck to aim it up would be easier and make more sense then holding it straight out to go from the front to back of your neck. 

Jeremy either didn't think about it too well and then thought oh crap I messed up I should have angled it to go into her brain or Sheila moved and screwed up his shot so he had to do it again. 

 

[scipio_usmc]

How do you know that? That is usually the tactics of the cops. But those tactics never get written down. But it happens I can assure you. So you cannot with any certainty say that it wasn't very aggressive.

Because we have seen the transcript of the episode.  They didn't grill him nearly as hard as they could have.  I entioned many things they could have grilled him about but didn't.  I have seen much more aggressive questioning.

I have more aggressively questioned witnesses than that.   

[John]

It was not very aggressive and they didn't ask him many quesitons they should have and could have.  They are questions that could have caused him got him to say even mor eincrimianting things.

For instance to ask how he knew how much money was in his fathers wallet.  To ask why he said the rifle could not fit in the closet with the moderator and scope attached.  to ask why no one saw him hunt vermit ever if he routinly did it.  To point out he earlier in the interrogation said he had not used the gun the week prior to themurders and ask if he change dhis story to prevent Anythng from being th elast to use it.  To press him on why Nevill would remove the scope and remind him he earlier verbally told police he removed it prior to the murders.Also to note the phone had nothing wrong with it and ask why he hid it and replaced it with the bedroom phone.  There are plenty of things they could have asked to really get him going that they didn't.  The main area it got heated what when he didn't want to give a definite answer of whether he called Julie or police first.  He said he stuck by his ealrier statement instead of wanting to commit to a poistion at that point in time.

He asked a number of times to see his statements because he wasn't sure what he wrote and wanted to read them so that he would not contradict himself but they would not show him.

"Koppers let me see what I wrote so I know what I shoudl tell you now without contradicting myself." Good grief his interrogation did not go well for him at all, the only bright spot for the defense is he didn't end up confessing during it.  That's about the only way he could have done worse.

...a really smart move, nearly as smart as telling the prosecutor in front of the jury that it was his job to prove he was guilty. 

[Reader]

You outright lie by denying Jeremy was asked things that we know for a fact was he was asked

I haven't denied Jeremy was asked anything. You claimed he wouldn't have been asked for Nevill's details if Nevill had already called. Jeremy also gave information (such as his address in Goldhanger and the fact that Nevill had called him) that Nevill didn't.

Most recently you accused me of making up that Jeremy told police Sheila fired all weapons in the house.

That's in statements by Ps Bews and Pc Myall, but Pc Saxby overheard enough to give a different version of what Jeremy said at the scene (which didn't say Sheila had fired all the weapons).  I tend to distrust Ps Bews and Pc Myall because their statements made no mention of the "trick of the light" incident.

You seem to use your mod status to delete posts where you accuse me of lying

I have never deleted a post of that type (or anything you posted). Whenever I've deleted a post of my own, I've reposted it (with minor alteration) almost immediately.

Jeremy asserted this call to Julie came after calling police.

No, that's your deduction from a couple of mistakes that Jeremy made. Making mistakes isn't the same as lying. If he'd wanted to say he called her after calling the police, he could have done so explicitly.

reiterated it to Caroline.

Caroline didn't post the exchange, but I'd guess she didn't point out the significance of the order of the calls.

you denied West admitted he made a mistake.

Pc West was clearly saying that if 3:26 was the correct time, that would mean he had made a mistake. However, if you read the entire exchange on this matter, it's quite clear that Pc West didn't think that 3:26 was the correct time.

The GSR would land on the hands and clothing of the shooter.

Gunshot residue is primarily from the muzzle of the weapon. Thus there would have been some on her neck and the nearby area of her clothing. Was GSR detected anywhere on anything?

[Mr. Gee]

A cloud of GSR forms when the primer is ignoted. The cloud is formed near the area where the firing pin ignites the primer so near the chamber of the weapon.

If the shooter is holding the rifle eye level it will get mostly on their face, hair, hands and shoulder/neck are of their clothing. If they are firing from the hip then moreso on the middle of their clothing and even upper pants. 

If you are hugging the weapon to shoot yourself the main area it will be is again the middle body area.  That area was not stained with blood so blood would not have been able to conceal it.

What you are thinking of a scoming out of the muzzle of the weapon is unburned gunpower. You are right that unburned gunpower ill only hit someone at close range.  Unburned gunpower will singe the wound of a contact shot.  It also can still get in the wound of a close shot. The further away the less concentrated the patter of stippling will be but unburned gunpower will not travel more than a few feet so when firing from a distance none will be observed and if it is present it indicates the killer fired within several feet. Depending on the pattern for the stippling you can try to narrow down the distance more.

The fatal wound had burning that indicated it was a contact wound.   

The initial wound not being a contact wound presents a problem as well. The gun was held nearly perpendicular to Sheila's neck. It was not a perfect 90 degree angle but the angle was slight.  The bullet went through the front of the nect to her vertebrae at only a slight angle.  Holding the gun away from your neck at nearly a 90 degree angle is pretty strange. It is easier to hold and to shoot when you are at contact range.  The further from your body the harder it is to pull the trigger. Jamming it under your neck to aim it up would be easier and make more sense then holding it straight out to go from the front to back of your neck. 

Jeremy either didn't think about it too well and then thought oh crap I messed up I should have angled it to go into her brain or Sheila moved and screwed up his shot so he had to do it again. 

 

Oh ok thanks.