A Call To Essex Police From Neville? - The poll

[Reader]

You haven't even commented on the angle of the shot which is quite obviously different given the view of the bible in both shots. You also haven't commented on how a leg moved several inches (in your opinion) makes Jeremy innocent?

I commented on the different camera position, which implies a different angle. I explained why it's immaterial - it can't affect the position of Sheila's right thigh in relation to the position of the rug on the carpet. In particular, the edge of the rug cannot be in line with two quite different positions on her thigh due to a change in camera position or angle. If the police moved her body, that significantly weakens the prosecution case that Jeremy staged her suicide.

[Jan]

I guess the fact is that we all in or minds think the photos do look so staged it would be hard to imagine the police could not see that?

I am not sure how common suicide by rifle is but you would think that the rifle /arm would fall away from the body and the hand would not remain in that position. I know the rifle has very little recoil but it is not how you would imagine the scene to look.

that is why I think the statements of officers who said they saw the body/bible/rifle in a different position should not be so easily dismissed.

Now it could be things were moved to check rifle  safety/ check the body ( as officers said they saw blood running from her mouth)  in a haphazard rather than a calculated way and then moved again ( to take photos)  but if this is true and not admitted it does not prove Jeremys innocence  but it would prove that the Jury were not getting the true images from the crime scene which would surely be relevant.

[John]

I guess the fact is that we all in or minds think the photos do look so staged it would be hard to imagine the police could not see that?

I am not sure how common suicide by rifle is but you would think that the rifle /arm would fall away from the body and the hand would not remain in that position. I know the rifle has very little recoil but it is not how you would imagine the scene to look.

that is why I think the statements of officers who said they saw the body/bible/rifle in a different position should not be so easily dismissed.

Now it could be things were moved to check rifle  safety/ check the body ( as officers said they saw blood running from her mouth)  in a haphazard rather than a calculated way and then moved again ( to take photos)  but if this is true and not admitted it does not prove Jeremys innocence  but it would prove that the Jury were not getting the true images from the crime scene which would surely be relevant.

What does it matter?  Bamber staged the scene in any event.

[lookout]

What does it matter?  Bamber staged the scene in any event.

I'm surprised at you John. Can't you admit that the case was badly handled ?

[Caroline]

I'm surprised at you John. Can't you admit that the case was badly handled ?

The case being badly handled doesn't mean Jeremy isn't guilty.

[Jan]

What does it matter?  Bamber staged the scene in any event.

I obviously am not tending towards that opinion hence my post.


We are all free to have our own opinion.


that's the point of discussion.

[Mr. Gee]

The case being badly handled doesn't mean Jeremy isn't guilty.

It may do?

[Caroline]

It may do?

But it doesn't necessarily follow.

[scipio_usmc]

I commented on the different camera position, which implies a different angle. I explained why it's immaterial - it can't affect the position of Sheila's right thigh in relation to the position of the rug on the carpet. In particular, the edge of the rug cannot be in line with two quite different positions on her thigh due to a change in camera position or angle. If the police moved her body, that significantly weakens the prosecution case that Jeremy staged her suicide.

As I already explained to you numerous times her thigh is in the same position in relation to the carpet.  Her dress was moved further down her thigh so that her crotch was more protected.  Her dress moved not her leg. 

Far from saying it was immaterial and you were just pointing it out for the sake of pointing it out you were clearly trying it imply it was suggestive of police wrongdoing and somehow helps Jeremy though you could not come up with any explanation of how it actually does so.

[scipio_usmc]

I guess the fact is that we all in or minds think the photos do look so staged it would be hard to imagine the police could not see that?

I am not sure how common suicide by rifle is but you would think that the rifle /arm would fall away from the body and the hand would not remain in that position. I know the rifle has very little recoil but it is not how you would imagine the scene to look.

that is why I think the statements of officers who said they saw the body/bible/rifle in a different position should not be so easily dismissed.

Now it could be things were moved to check rifle  safety/ check the body ( as officers said they saw blood running from her mouth)  in a haphazard rather than a calculated way and then moved again ( to take photos)  but if this is true and not admitted it does not prove Jeremys innocence  but it would prove that the Jury were not getting the true images from the crime scene which would surely be relevant.

In countries where firearms are widely available they are used in about 60% of suicides.  In countries where they are not widely available the percentage is much lower. In the UK percentage is around 2% only.  The majority of these are with shotguns not rifles.  Asphyxiation or suffocation (which are usually grouped together statistically but asphyxiation is more common).

When handguns are not outlawed they make up the majority of firearm suicides with shotguns taking second place and rifles last. When handguns are outlawed they make up a smaller amount of suicides and usually are outnumbered by shotguns and sometimes even rifle suicides. 

So police in the UK were not and still are not used to dealing with many firearm related suicides.

The staging was to suggest Sheila was lying down on her back, held the gun along her body, fired and then the gun fell on her.  If that actually happened the gun could indeed land on her the way it was found.  The problems are that the bloodstains indicate she was seated not lying down and she had neither ant GSR on her gown as would be the case with the gun being fired along her body nor on her hands.

The police at the scene were not experts in blood stains and had no way to know whether she had GSR or not on her so it is understandable that they would need experts to detail such for them.  Once such details were provided to those handling the investigation it changed things a great deal.  But so did the moderator evidence and Julie's account. 

We are not looking in the dark like police were.  We are looking with the benefit of already having knowledge of everything.  There is no way for us to shut hidsight off and put ourselves in the position of police at the outset. 

[Reader]

her thigh is in the same position in relation to the carpet.  Her dress was moved further down her thigh so that her crotch was more protected.  Her dress moved not her leg.

I wasn't referring to her dress (nightie) at all. I was referring to the position of her thigh in relation to the rug on the carpet. You are therefore referring to things I didn't post and failing to consider what I did post.

[Caroline]

I commented on the different camera position, which implies a different angle. I explained why it's immaterial - it can't affect the position of Sheila's right thigh in relation to the position of the rug on the carpet. In particular, the edge of the rug cannot be in line with two quite different positions on her thigh due to a change in camera position or angle. If the police moved her body, that significantly weakens the prosecution case that Jeremy staged her suicide.

I don't believe they did move her leg and honestly think you're imagining it. However, it doesn't weaken the case at all, the staging is the gun on the chest and bible by her side. She quite obviously died there because she's in a pool of her own blood.

[scipio_usmc]

I wasn't referring to her dress (nightie) at all. I was referring to the position of her thigh in relation to the rug on the carpet. You are therefore referring to things I didn't post and failing to consider what I did post.

Her leg didn't move you are imagining it.  You are so desperate to attack police you see things that don't exist and fail to establish anything wrong even if you had been correct.

Her gown being lower gives the false initial impression her leg moved.  All one has to do is take a closer look to see that is not the case.

As Caroline pointed out even if her leg had been moved it would have no significance at all.  They have the right to move her body all they want after taking the initial photo to document her position she was found in.  They could roll her over to check her back and move her anywhere they wanted.

The phot taken after she was moved was to document the blood stain that was under her hand.  The photo served that purpose perfectly.  Hey could have moved her all they wanted before taking it and it would make no difference at all.

[lookout]

What about the officer who didn't even see a rifle on Sheilas' chest ?? How did it suddenly appear,and where from ? And why place it on her body.? It had been placed because it doesn't look right.We all know where the bullet wounds are without the rifle pointing them out ! It's too obvious.

[Caroline]

What about the officer who didn't even see a rifle on Sheilas' chest ?? How did it suddenly appear,and where from ? And why place it on her body.? It had been placed because it doesn't look right.We all know where the bullet wounds are without the rifle pointing them out ! It's too obvious.

Who?