Was Sheila carried to the main bedroom ?

[Mr. Gee]

Uncover Sheila from a standing position ? I do not understand.

He just had to pull back the bed sheets (If she was not already on top of the bed).  Then put one hand under her knees. The other hand under her back. And lift. 

Me as a man, I do not see a problem.

Why didn't he just shoot her whilst she was still asleep and then stage the scene? You scenarios have more holes in them than your head.

[Alias]

Uncover Sheila from a standing position ? I do not understand.

He just had to pull back the bed sheets (If she was not already on top of the bed).  Then put one hand under her knees. The other hand under her back. And lift. 

Me as a man, I do not see a problem.

I, as a woman, see a huge problem. You see Sheila as a totally limp, blathering, brainless idiot - amd I find your crazy suggestion that she was carried without waking up highly offensive.

[Steve_uk]

Uncover Sheila from a standing position ? I do not understand.

He just had to pull back the bed sheets (If she was not already on top of the bed).  Then put one hand under her knees. The other hand under her back. And lift. 

Me as a man, I do not see a problem.

But there are many problems Adam. Jeremy can't risk Sheila peeping into the twins' room or the game is up. If Sheila has to be led into the master bedroom there is June's body in the way. Sheila might also ask where Nevill is and begin to move downstairs. Mike has already stated there was none of Nevill's blood in the bedroom. Wasn't there also a droplet of June's blood found outside Sheila's bedroom?

I do believe your scenarios on the whole because Sheila was in such a state,not saying goodbye to Auntie Pam as she normally did,probably exhausted after the two weekend parties,the trip to Tiptree,the engineer whom she thought was an intruder,the monastery incident. I think Jeremy did lead her to her death,but it is not as clear cut as the guilters might wish.

[Adam]

Why didn't he just shoot her whilst she was still asleep and then stage the scene? You scenarios have more holes in them than your head.

Because there would be blood on the bed. She was supposed to be out of bed going 'crazy with the gun'.

Not good enough.

[Alias]

But there are many problems Adam. Jeremy can't risk Sheila peeping into the twins' room or the game is up. If Sheila has to be led into the master bedroom there is June's body in the way. Sheila might also ask where Nevill is and begin to move downstairs. Mike has already stated there was none of Nevill's blood in the bedroom. Wasn't there also a droplet of June's blood found outside Sheila's bedroom?

I do believe your scenarios on the whole because Sheila was in such a state,not saying goodbye to Auntie Pam as she normally did,probably exhausted after the two weekend parties,the trip to Tiptree,the engineer whom she thought was an intruder,the monastery incident. I think Jeremy did lead her to her death,but it is not as clear cut as the guilters might wish.

But Steve, why lead her into their parents´ bedroom, literally stepping over the horribly bloody body of June? He risked a major reaction from Sheila. Why the bedroom?
It doesn´t make sense in neither the (crazy) Jeremy carrying Sheila scenario nor in the (also crazy) Jeremy leading Sheila in there. I cannot see any possible way he would have risked upsetting her to no end!

Hartley had the theory that Jeremy happened upon Sheila there - I can buy into that - the other two scenarios are both non-starters without logic. In my opinion.

[Adam]

I, as a woman, see a huge problem. You see Sheila as a totally limp, blathering, brainless idiot - amd I find your crazy suggestion that she was carried without waking up highly offensive.

In a deep sleep. Five - ten seconds. Ten feet.

[Adam]

But Steve, why lead her into their parents´ bedroom, literally stepping over the horribly bloody body of June? He risked a major reaction from Sheila. Why the bedroom?
It doesn´t make sense in neither the (crazy) Jeremy carrying Sheila scenario nor in the (also crazy) Jeremy leading Sheila in there. I cannot see any possible way he would have risked upsetting her to no end!

Hartley had the theory that Jeremy happened upon Sheila there - I can buy into that - the other two scenarios are both non-starters without logic. In my opinion.

I have also said she may have been lead or retreated there.

You jumped on the carried bit.

[Alias]

In a deep sleep. Five - ten seconds. Ten feet.

Save your energy. I´ll never buy into this whacky scenario. Nor will anyone else - pro or anti Bamber.

[Alias]

I have also said she may have been lead or retreated there.

You jumped on the carried bit.

No, you keep repeating it. You need Sheila to be asleep in your scenario. She was not asleep.

[Adam]

No, you keep repeating it. You need Sheila to be asleep in your scenario. She was not asleep.

She may have slept through it all and was then lead/carried.

She may have been awake and retreated.

My recent thread 'Sheila did not fight back. Why ? ' says this.

[Steve_uk]

But Steve, why lead her into their parents´ bedroom, literally stepping over the horribly bloody body of June? He risked a major reaction from Sheila. Why the bedroom?
It doesn´t make sense in neither the (crazy) Jeremy carrying Sheila scenario nor in the (also crazy) Jeremy leading Sheila in there. I cannot see any possible way he would have risked upsetting her to no end!

Hartley had the theory that Jeremy happened upon Sheila there - I can buy into that - the other two scenarios are both non-starters without logic. In my opinion.

I don't know for sure. I think Jeremy's plan was to kill both parents in the bedroom,making sure there was no telephone to hand. I'm sorry to say but I do believe Julie's statement that he got carried away with himself(using the proxy Matthew McDonald),which was why his father ended up with such a beating,repayment for eight long years incarcerated in Gresham's public school. Or maybe Jeremy planned the telephone call pretext to give himself an alibi and was prepared to march Nevill downstairs with gun in hand. Sheila anyway had to be moved out of her bedroom or forensics would have been able to tell she had played no part in the massacre.

[Alias]

She may have slept through it all.

She may have been awake and retreated.

My recent thread 'Sheila did not fight back. Why ? ' says this.

Really? Do you think I care?

[lookout]

Tell you what.Why don't you ask Jeremy all these inane questions yourself ?

[Jane]

But there are many problems Adam. Jeremy can't risk Sheila peeping into the twins' room or the game is up. If Sheila has to be led into the master bedroom there is June's body in the way. Sheila might also ask where Nevill is and begin to move downstairs. Mike has already stated there was none of Nevill's blood in the bedroom. Wasn't there also a droplet of June's blood found outside Sheila's bedroom?

I do believe your scenarios on the whole because Sheila was in such a state,not saying goodbye to Auntie Pam as she normally did,probably exhausted after the two weekend parties,the trip to Tiptree,the engineer whom she thought was an intruder,the monastery incident. I think Jeremy did lead her to her death,but it is not as clear cut as the guilters might wish.

Steve, you surely aren't judging her mental state on the fact of her not saying goodbye to Auntie Pam. We know June was concerned about her because she told Pam she was. I would have described her behaviour as erratic. She appears to have been "up and down" since her arrival. The presence of a particular mood not an indication of its permanence. We are also told by her London neighbour that she could hear her talking/wailing/screaming during the night, which indicates that she may have been a light sleeper. As a mother, it's more than likely she would have been attuned to any sounds or movement from the boys. Certainly, if she was in any way hyper, I imagine she'd have woken to a touch she wasn't used to.

[Steve_uk]

Steve, you surely aren't judging her mental state on the fact of her not saying goodbye to Auntie Pam. We know June was concerned about her because she told Pam she was. I would have described her behaviour as erratic. She appears to have been "up and down" since her arrival. The presence of a particular mood not an indication of its permanence. We are also told by her London neighbour that she could hear her talking/wailing/screaming during the night, which indicates that she may have been a light sleeper. As a mother, it's more than likely she would have been attuned to any sounds or movement from the boys. Certainly, if she was in any way hyper, I imagine she'd have woken to a touch she wasn't used to.

I just think she had moved out of her normal routine,having the twins in her charge,and given that her mental state always deteriorated during visits I'd say she was worn out and taken by surprise those last few seconds of her life.