Its not a case that Jeremy is guilty its a case of incompetence!

[scipio_usmc]

June would NOT have been asleep with all that was going on. She was a bad sleeper at the best of times and used to be scared to sleep in case she had nightmares which she'd suffered from.

Yet she was shot in bed when she and Nevill were shot in the bedroom when the shooting started.  So the whole notion that Sheila was causing a commotion and Nevill phoning Jeremy was obviously nonsense because ther eis no way she would have stayed in bed sleeping as it was going on and the shooting would have started somewhere else.  The killer walked into the master bedroom and emptied the magazine into the parents.  June managed to get out of bed but did not make it far before collapsing.  After the gun was empty Nevill went to the kitchen and struggled with the killer, was knocked unconscious then was shot to death.  That is the way the crime went down with respect to the parents.  The phone call to Jeremy never happened.

[scipio_usmc]

The only doctor who states that Sheila suffered from sleepiness due to Haldol is Dr. Ann Wilkinson. Dr. Ferguson has no such remarks, only general ones where he states that side effects MAY be so and so, bu that it is not a given.
Dr. Wilkinson was 29 at the time and a doctor who was a G.P. Assistant at Dr. Myrto Angelou, Sheila´s general practitioner.
She saw Sheila once, and that was on July 11 1985. She had started working at Dr. Angelou´s clinic July 9 1985 - two days before she saw Sheila. She apparently took it upon herself to reduce Sheila´s dose from 200 mg to 100 mg in one sweep. Dr. Ferguson´s recommendation was to reduce it to 150 mg.
There is a lot of confusion in the statements from the three doctors about the dosage of Haloperidol, especially Dr. Ferguson; seems he didn´t know a thing about what Sheila was actually given. You´ll have to read the statements yourselves....  but he didn´t know she got that last dose of 100 mg, I can tell you that.
I said that he was angry that Dr. Wilkinson only gave 100 mg - that was incorrect, it was Dr. Angelou who was angry, sorry.

I thought that Sheila had received 200 mg of Haldol on a montly basis, but it turns out it was originally once every two weeks!!!!!
It is unclear to me whether her dose was not only cut from 200 mg to 100 mg, but also reduced from every two weeks to once a month in one swipe. I´ll try reading it again, when I feel up to it. I don´t particularly enjoy reading statements in ENGLISH. 
In any case, Sheila´s dosage was dramatically reduced, maybe not only halved, but QUARTERED, which means that at the time of the killings, Sheila would have had one eigth of her dose in her system (I can explain how I get to that conclusion if you insist.....it has to do with halving time of the drug)!!! It is EXTREMELY DANGEROUS TO DRASTICALLY REDUCE THE DOSAGE OF HALOPERIDOL! LOTS OF PATIENTS HAVE HAD VIOLENT REACTIONS TO SUCH A PROCEDURE - THERE HAVE BEEN MURDERS TOO.

P.S. Drowsiness is a side effect of Haldol, but only if you are OVER medicated or even OVERDOSED. No wonder if Sheila had been feeling sleepiness with a dose of 200 mg per fourtnight!
That was not the dose she was on at the time of the murders....

You said that she complained about insomnia.  The statements make no such claim they state she complained about being tired.  You got your infromation about insomnia from Jeremy's website and his advocates who misrepresented her complaint as insomnia when it was a complaint about being tired.

100MG is still a large dose, as I have mentioned many times in the past studies show it is not safe to give higher doses and higher doses do not result in greater effectiveness.

Everyone who knew her said she was constantly tired among other things which is why Ferguson diagnosed her as being over medicated.

She wasn't taking the countering agent so nothing at all was counteracting the sedative effects of the Haloperidol and 100MG still causes a great deal of such effects.  Ferguson didn't bother to mention that part Angelou did.  Had she been taking the Procyclidine she was prescribed which is why it was not found in her system during the toxicology tests.

You have no way to counter Ferguson's diagnosis that she was overmedicated and nothing to suggest she was suffering from insomnia she complained to the doctor about being tired and to her acquaintances as well.  Statement after statements says she was contanly, tired, vacant, and talking slow etc all of which Ferguson said were signs of being overmedicated and why he made the diagnosis he did. To try to rebut this certain Jeremy advocates made up (or Jeremy made it up and they ran with it) the lie that she was suffering from insmonia not over tranquilised.   

[Jane]

You said that she complained about insomnia.  The statements make no such claim they state she complained about being tired.  You got your infromation about insomnia from Jeremy's website and his advocates who misrepresented her complaint as insomnia when it was a complaint about being tired.

100MG is still a large dose, as I have mentioned many times in the past studies show it is not safe to give higher doses and higher doses do not result in greater effectiveness.

Everyone who knew her said she was constantly tired among other things which is why Ferguson diagnosed her as being over medicated.

She wasn't taking the countering agent so nothing at all was counteracting the sedative effects of the Haloperidol and 100MG still causes a great deal of such effects.  Ferguson didn't bother to mention that part Angelou did.  Had she been taking the Procyclidine she was prescribed which is why it was not found in her system during the toxicology tests.

You have no way to counter Ferguson's diagnosis that she was overmedicated and nothing to suggest she was suffering from insomnia she complained to the doctor about being tired and to her acquaintances as well.  Statement after statements says she was contanly, tired, vacant, and talking slow etc all of which Ferguson said were signs of being overmedicated and why he made the diagnosis he did. To try to rebut this certain Jeremy advocates made up (or Jeremy made it up and they ran with it) the lie that she was suffering from insmonia not over tranquilised.   

Alias, I find it HUGELY strange that the unauthorized reduction in  meds was simply brushed aside. Scipio maintains that it's of no consequence but when I spoke to a doctor friend about it she said if consultants' instructions were countermanded by junior doctors there was no point in the consultant writing the prescription in  the first place.

But she wasn't so over medicated that she wasn't capable of running screaming from the monastery. She wasn't so over medicated that she was incapable of screaming at the meter man and she wasn't so over medicated that she couldn't skip along a pathway with her children.

[Alias]

But she wasn't so over medicated that she wasn't capable of running screaming from the monastery. She wasn't so over medicated that she was incapable of screaming at the meter man and she wasn't so over medicated that she couldn't skip along a pathway with her children.

Sheila was on one eighth of her "normal" dose, she was not over medicated at the time of the tragedy.
Scipio, I will answer your post above later. If you have other things in your life, it can be hard to keep up to you. Is it safe to say that you are obsessing about this case? 

[scipio_usmc]

Listed side effects of Haloperidol:

Very common: More than 1 in 10 people who take Haloperidol

    abnormal muscle movements or problems controlling muscle movement
    difficulty sleeping
    extrapyramidal side effects - seek medical advice if you develop side-effects such as tremors; increased salivation; slowing of physical movements; feeling restless and an inability to sit still; difficulty moving; muscle stiffness or muscle spasms including muscle spasm of the throat
    feeling agitated
    headaches

The sleeping problems reported include being drowsy.  Sleep disorders doesn't just mean insomnia.  In the meantime akathisia, better known as restlessness, is often misreported as insomnia.  Restlessness is common not insomnia.  When taking a counter drug that is when peopel have insomnia.   

"Common Side Effects
Rapid heartbeat, constipation, blurry vision, dry mouth, drop in blood pressure upon standing
Feeling drowsy, dizzy, or restless"

http://www.nami.org/Template.cfm?Section=About_Medications&Template=/TaggedPage/TaggedPageDisplay.cfm&TPLID=51&ContentID=66281


"This medicine may cause drowsiness and blurred vision. If affected do not drive or operate machinery. You should avoid drinking alcohol while taking this medicine because it can make drowsiness worse."

Read more: http://www.netdoctor.co.uk/brain-and-nervous-system/medicines/haldol.html

It is not classified as a tranquilizer for nothing.  While the tranquilizing properties are not how it treats schizophrenia those properties are there and make it harder to do things.  It is not prescribed often anymore because it interferes with daily life activities quite a lot and causes other health problems.

Try to find a case of someone on Haldol injections taking no counter agent who had delusions and murdered someone.  You will be hardpressed to find any cases even where a counter agent was being taken.  In fact the same goes true for all cases where people are being successfully treated. Virtually all murders by schizophrenics are committed by those who had either not been diagonsed until after the murders or had stopped taking their medication. The remainder mainly were under the influence or narcotics or had not yet responded successfully to limited treatment.  It is excedingly rare for someone who is being treated successfully and who is not skipping medication to have a psychotic episode and resort to violence let alone to try to kill anyone.

   

 

[lookout]

Yet she was shot in bed when she and Nevill were shot in the bedroom when the shooting started.  So the whole notion that Sheila was causing a commotion and Nevill phoning Jeremy was obviously nonsense because ther eis no way she would have stayed in bed sleeping as it was going on and the shooting would have started somewhere else.  The killer walked into the master bedroom and emptied the magazine into the parents.  June managed to get out of bed but did not make it far before collapsing.  After the gun was empty Nevill went to the kitchen and struggled with the killer, was knocked unconscious then was shot to death.  That is the way the crime went down with respect to the parents.  The phone call to Jeremy never happened.

Use your imagination You keep banging on about how guilty Jeremy is-------just like EP and the relatives did. As it's been said many times,he's in prison,what more do you want ?
 You're like a child with everything having to be explained to you that's already been said before,with old ground now wearing a bit thin. Then again-------what's the use when you argue against what anyone else says ?. Take your blinkers off for a change and stop being so one-sided while the rest of us have at least been prepared to see BOTH sides of the coin.

There's  more than one way to skin a cat.
 

[Jane]

The sleeping problems reported include being drowsy.  Sleep disorders doesn't just mean insomnia.  In the meantime akathisia, better known as restlessness, is often misreported as insomnia.  Restlessness is common not insomnia.  When taking a counter drug that is when peopel have insomnia.   

"Common Side Effects
Rapid heartbeat, constipation, blurry vision, dry mouth, drop in blood pressure upon standing
Feeling drowsy, dizzy, or restless"

http://www.nami.org/Template.cfm?Section=About_Medications&Template=/TaggedPage/TaggedPageDisplay.cfm&TPLID=51&ContentID=66281


"This medicine may cause drowsiness and blurred vision. If affected do not drive or operate machinery. You should avoid drinking alcohol while taking this medicine because it can make drowsiness worse."

Read more: http://www.netdoctor.co.uk/brain-and-nervous-system/medicines/haldol.html

It is not classified as a tranquilizer for nothing.  While the tranquilizing properties are not how it treats schizophrenia those properties are there and make it harder to do things.  It is not prescribed often anymore because it interferes with daily life activities quite a lot and causes other health problems.

Try to find a case of someone on Haldol injections taking no counter agent who had delusions and murdered someone.  You will be hardpressed to find any cases even where a counter agent was being taken.  In fact the same goes true for all cases where people are being successfully treated. Virtually all murders by schizophrenics are committed by those who had either not been diagonsed until after the murders or had stopped taking their medication. The remainder mainly were under the influence or narcotics or had not yet responded successfully to limited treatment.  It is excedingly rare for someone who is being treated successfully and who is not skipping medication to have a psychotic episode and resort to violence let alone to try to kill anyone.

 

Well, there's a coincidence. I take Paramax for migraine and guess what? It carries EXACTLY the same warnings about the possibility of drowsiness. It also cautions against driving if one experiences drowsiness. However, as with all other cautions, the key word is MAY. Nowhere does it tell me it WILL cause these problems.

[lookout]

 Oh,poor April,migraine. I wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy,and you have ALL my sympathy.

[scipio_usmc]

Well, there's a coincidence. I take Paramax for migraine and guess what? It carries EXACTLY the same warnings about the possibility of drowsiness. It also cautions against driving if one experiences drowsiness. However, as with all other cautions, the key word is MAY. Nowhere does it tell me it WILL cause these problems.

There is a reason that Haldol is classified as a major tranquilizer and that the counter agent administered with it combats the sedative effects. 

The fact of the matter is that Sheila was not taking it so didn't have the counte rin her system and had the classic signs of being over sedated. 

Glaxosmithkline, Haldol's maker, doesn't even make a 200MG decanoate (injection) anymore. The large t dose they manufacturer today is 100MG anything greater is not considered safe.

 

[Jane]

Oh,poor April,migraine. I wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy,and you have ALL my sympathy.

Lookout, THANK-YOU At their worse, they were pretty damned miserable and Paramax stopped the nausea and aided sleeping, so they must have had a tranquilizing effect, however if the migraine started when I was away from home I would have taken taken the medication and driven. Just because the instructions give a lengthy list of contra-indications, it's not a given that they'll all happen. I've been involved in drug trials and my doctor said that if grew green leaves whilst I was taking them there would have to appear a warning that the drug may cause green leaves to grow!!!!! None of this has to do with whether or not Jeremy is guilty but I feel VERY strongly that it's been glossed over and should be looked at in more depth.

[Alias]

Oh,poor April,migraine. I wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy,and you have ALL my sympathy.

I concur! I used to have migraine, but it was cured 100% when I was twelve years old.
My mother took me to a ton of specialists, no one could help, until she found some herbal doctor. I got a German herbal medicine, Dehydergot (heard of that, April?) ten drops every day for one year, EXACTLY!! My mother measured it - I was not allowed to.
I haven´t had migraine one single time since then. I had it BAD for one year or so prior to my treatment - it was awful!
I think the medicine can be risky if you are not very exact with it. Not sure what it does, would have to look into that.
Amazed that I can remember the name of the medication - but then, I saw the bottle every day for a year!


_____________________________________

"Dihydergot

Generic Name: Dihydroergotamine mesylate
Product Name: Dihydergot
Indication

Dihydergot is used to relieve migraine and cluster headache. It is also used to treat severe disabling orthostatic hypotension.
Action

Dihydergot contains the active ingredient dihydroergotamine. It belongs to a group of medicines known as the "ergot alkaloids." Dihydergot has complex pharmacological effects. It has both the stimulating and blocking effects on both alpha-adrenergic and serotonergic receptors.

During migraine attacks, the small blood vessels in your brain swell and cause temporary change in size. This results in pain and visual disturbance. Dihydergot stops the atack by causing the blood vessels to shrink back to its original size. Dihydergot is only used to treat migraine attacks. It is not used to prevent attacks from happening.

Dihydergot is also used in adults to prevent a sudden, sharp drop in blood pressure that happens in some people when they stand up after sitting or lying down for a long period of time. This condition, called orthostatic hypotension, can cause severe, disabling attacks of dizziness and lightheadedness, sometimes with fainting."

But it was - and it worked....
Anyway, I remember the name to be Dehydergot, not Dihydergot, maybe there is a difference.

[Jane]

There is a reason that Haldol is classified as a major tranquilizer and that the counter agent administered with it combats the sedative effects. 

The fact of the matter is that Sheila was not taking it so didn't have the counte rin her system and had the classic signs of being over sedated. 

Glaxosmithkline, Haldol's maker, doesn't even make a 200MG decanoate (injection) anymore. The large t dose they manufacturer today is 100MG anything greater is not considered safe.

You make it sound as if Haloperidol was the only drug involved. My aunt, an asthma since her childhood, coped extremely well on a combination of ephidrine(s) and Tucker's Asthma Cure, which was withdrawn. It turned out that it was an addictive substance -it may have been heroin, but I can't be certain. My aunt had inhaled this noxious substance every time she suffered an asthma attack. She wouldn't have thought to use it at other times. It was to alleviate the attack which it did, very successfully. From the time TAC was taken off the market to the day my aunt died they never found another treatment which was as efficacious BUT they said TAC was too dangerous to be on the market.

[Jane]

I concur! I used to have migraine, but it was cured 100% when I was twelve years old.
My mother took me to a ton of specialists, no one could help, until she found some herbal doctor. I got a German herbal medicine, Dehydergot (heard of that, April?) ten drops every day for one year, EXACTLY!! My mother measured it - I was not allowed to.
I haven´t had migraine one single time since then. I had it BAD for one year or so prior to my treatment - it was awful!
I think the medicine can be risky if you are not very exact with it. Not sure what it does, would have to look into that.
Amazed that I can remember the name of the medication - but then, I saw the bottle every day for a year!


_____________________________________

"Dihydergot

Generic Name: Dihydroergotamine mesylate
Product Name: Dihydergot
Indication

Dihydergot is used to relieve migraine and cluster headache. It is also used to treat severe disabling orthostatic hypotension.
Action

Dihydergot contains the active ingredient dihydroergotamine. It belongs to a group of medicines known as the "ergot alkaloids." Dihydergot has complex pharmacological effects. It has both the stimulating and blocking effects on both alpha-adrenergic and serotonergic receptors.

During migraine attacks, the small blood vessels in your brain swell and cause temporary change in size. This results in pain and visual disturbance. Dihydergot stops the atack by causing the blood vessels to shrink back to its original size. Dihydergot is only used to treat migraine attacks. It is not used to prevent attacks from happening.

Dihydergot is also used in adults to prevent a sudden, sharp drop in blood pressure that happens in some people when they stand up after sitting or lying down for a long period of time. This condition, called orthostatic hypotension, can cause severe, disabling attacks of dizziness and lightheadedness, sometimes with fainting."

But it was - and it worked....
Anyway, I remember the name to be Dehydergot, not Dihydergot, maybe there is a difference.

Alias, many thanks for that detailed outline. I'm certain the cause of mine was hormonal because these days I'm only (PLEASE God) inclined to get migraine TYPE headaches.........................after too much alcohol

[Alias]

Alias, many thanks for that detailed outline. I'm certain the cause of mine was hormonal because these days I'm only (PLEASE God) inclined to get migraine TYPE headaches.........................after too much alcohol

Mine had to do with too low blood pressure apparently.
DON´T DRINK THEN! Hehehe

[Jane]

Mine had to do with too low blood pressure apparently.
DON´T DRINK THEN! Hehehe

KILLJOY :D :D :D