Author Topic: Its not a case that Jeremy is guilty its a case of incompetence!  (Read 8010 times)

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Offline Patti

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7th of August 1985 five members of the Bamber family were shot dead in a remote farm house in Essex. 

Sheila was the first suspect, for she had suffered from paranoid schizophrenia and was receiving treatment for it. Sheila had been admitted to hospital on two occasions and lost custody of her two children to their father.

During the investigation the family of June Bamber protested that Sheila knew nothing about guns and found it impossible to accept that Sheila could have committed such a crime. It was their opinion that it was her brother Jeremy that had murdered his family.

We are in a modern age where we witness time after time that paranoid schizophrenics commit horrendous crimes out of the blue....

It is a case of what happened after the events that makes this case unusual and throws doubt whether or not Jeremy did commit the crime he is sentenced for.....

I have doubts and if I doubt something then I have stay neutral.  ;) :) :) :) :)


Offline lookout

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Re: Its not a case that Jeremy is guilty its a case of incompetence!
« Reply #1 on: August 13, 2014, 08:22:AM »
Good post Patti,and something which should have been considered at trial. Nobody knew anything about anyone and the same pattern still exists in our courts today as it always has done through the years.

Offline JackiePreece

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Re: Its not a case that Jeremy is guilty its a case of incompetence!
« Reply #2 on: August 13, 2014, 08:37:AM »
Of course Patti unfortunately we have forum members that are close to the family or work for the family so not everyone is neutral.

I will always find it strange that these people come on to the forum as they make it clear they believe Jeremy is definitely guilty and will never come out of prison
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Offline lookout

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Re: Its not a case that Jeremy is guilty its a case of incompetence!
« Reply #3 on: August 13, 2014, 10:23:AM »
Even if there is hope of Jeremys' release,there'll be a banding of people ready to oppose that move.
The same people will be the ones who are opposed to capital punishment,yet---------------are more than happy to see a man stay in jail until he dies ! Where's the logic in that ??

Offline Jan

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Re: Its not a case that Jeremy is guilty its a case of incompetence!
« Reply #4 on: August 13, 2014, 06:32:PM »
I believe there was a case reported this week where a man with paranoid schizophrenia killed his parents .

The interesting thing was he said that at the time he was aware he was killing his parents , but had absolutely no feelings about it whatsoever . He was not delusional at all .

then later when his normal feelings came back he reported what he had done.

So I guess it shows the illness can manifest itself in many ways.



Offline lookout

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Re: Its not a case that Jeremy is guilty its a case of incompetence!
« Reply #5 on: August 13, 2014, 06:52:PM »
 If this is the same case,Jansus,the son thought his mother was plotting against him,or some such thing. He's been sent to a secure unit for the mentally ill. He was aware of murdering.

Offline scipio_usmc

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Re: Its not a case that Jeremy is guilty its a case of incompetence!
« Reply #6 on: August 13, 2014, 08:07:PM »
7th of August 1985 five members of the Bamber family were shot dead in a remote farm house in Essex. 

Sheila was the first suspect, for she had suffered from paranoid schizophrenia and was receiving treatment for it. Sheila had been admitted to hospital on two occasions and lost custody of her two children to their father.

During the investigation the family of June Bamber protested that Sheila knew nothing about guns and found it impossible to accept that Sheila could have committed such a crime. It was their opinion that it was her brother Jeremy that had murdered his family.

We are in a modern age where we witness time after time that paranoid schizophrenics commit horrendous crimes out of the blue....

It is a case of what happened after the events that makes this case unusual and throws doubt whether or not Jeremy did commit the crime he is sentenced for.....

I have doubts and if I doubt something then I have stay neutral.  ;) :) :) :) :)

And how many of those schizophrenics did so out of the blue while being successfully treated by medication? 

How many when they were being over tansquilized?

How many killed their entire family becuase of delusions and then also themselves?

How many did so without leaving any physical evidence? 

How many managed to walk around after they were dead to do things like put away things or move items in their blood and then put there body in a different position?

The simple fact she was schizophrenic is not enough to overlook the physical evidence let alone to say a schizophrenic is likely to do something when being successfully treated.

Everytime I challenge people to provide examples of schizophrenics who were being successfully treated, not skipping their medication and not udner the influence of drugs or alcohol who committed murder or attempted murder during the course of a psychotic episode I am met with silence.

The only medication she wasn't taking was the agent to counter the tranquilizing effects and tremors caused by Haloperidol.  The counter gives energy and stops the tremors allowing for more dexterity. So she was even less liekly to be able to do it as a result of not taking such medication not moreso liek some want to pretend.

The time of night also is totally inconsistent.  SHe was tired and woudl have been expected according to her doctor to sleep soundly.  Thus it would be unlikely for her to get up at all around 3AM let alone to get up and then start having delusions where she decides to kill people who are in bed.  You kill people and the situation gets worse when they are around you not when they are sleeping.   

When she wasn't on her meds and had psychotic epidoses troubling interactions with people set her off.  It is already hard enough to believe that she was up and Nevill went to see what she was doing, she was a grown woman.  But if she did have a psychotic episode and delusions and decided to kill him she would have opened fire in the kitchen on him.

If she committed the murders she would have had evidence on her clothing and body but had none because she didn't do it and the evidence shows she can't have killed herself.  Then when you look into Jeremy's claims they fall apart and it becoems obvious he was trying to frame his sister.  WHy would he do that unless he were the killer?  This is not a case where it appears that Nevill really made the phone call to Jeremy but did so at gunpoint from someoen else who wanted to frame Sheila. Jeremy staged bullets and said he left the gun out for her he did the framing. 

That is why this is not a close case for many people. 

   
Politeness is organized indifference- Paul Valéry

Offline JackiePreece

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Re: Its not a case that Jeremy is guilty its a case of incompetence!
« Reply #7 on: August 13, 2014, 08:14:PM »
Cuckoo???
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Offline Jane

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Re: Its not a case that Jeremy is guilty its a case of incompetence!
« Reply #8 on: August 13, 2014, 08:31:PM »
And how many of those schizophrenics did so out of the blue while being successfully treated by medication? 

How many when they were being over tansquilized?

How many killed their entire family becuase of delusions and then also themselves?

How many did so without leaving any physical evidence? 

How many managed to walk around after they were dead to do things like put away things or move items in their blood and then put there body in a different position?

The simple fact she was schizophrenic is not enough to overlook the physical evidence let alone to say a schizophrenic is likely to do something when being successfully treated.

Everytime I challenge people to provide examples of schizophrenics who were being successfully treated, not skipping their medication and not udner the influence of drugs or alcohol who committed murder or attempted murder during the course of a psychotic episode I am met with silence.

The only medication she wasn't taking was the agent to counter the tranquilizing effects and tremors caused by Haloperidol.  The counter gives energy and stops the tremors allowing for more dexterity. So she was even less liekly to be able to do it as a result of not taking such medication not moreso liek some want to pretend.

The time of night also is totally inconsistent.  SHe was tired and woudl have been expected according to her doctor to sleep soundly.  Thus it would be unlikely for her to get up at all around 3AM let alone to get up and then start having delusions where she decides to kill people who are in bed.  You kill people and the situation gets worse when they are around you not when they are sleeping.   

When she wasn't on her meds and had psychotic epidoses troubling interactions with people set her off.  It is already hard enough to believe that she was up and Nevill went to see what she was doing, she was a grown woman.  But if she did have a psychotic episode and delusions and decided to kill him she would have opened fire in the kitchen on him.

If she committed the murders she would have had evidence on her clothing and body but had none because she didn't do it and the evidence shows she can't have killed herself.  Then when you look into Jeremy's claims they fall apart and it becoems obvious he was trying to frame his sister.  WHy would he do that unless he were the killer?  This is not a case where it appears that Nevill really made the phone call to Jeremy but did so at gunpoint from someoen else who wanted to frame Sheila. Jeremy staged bullets and said he left the gun out for her he did the framing. 

That is why this is not a close case for many people. 

 



I know you keep labouring the point that Sheila was over medicated and there WERE times during her stay that she appeared lethargic but it is also true that she ran screaming from the monastery, a VAST distance from WHF. It is also true that she screamed at the man who had come to read the meters. It has also been said that she was seen to be skipping with the twins. All this activity requires an energy, that had she been as severely over medicated as you suggest, she wouldn't have had.

Offline Jan

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Re: Its not a case that Jeremy is guilty its a case of incompetence!
« Reply #9 on: August 13, 2014, 08:55:PM »
If this is the same case,Jansus,the son thought his mother was plotting against him,or some such thing. He's been sent to a secure unit for the mentally ill. He was aware of murdering.

Yes , that's what I said he was aware he was killing them , but he said at the time he was devoid of all feelings or emotions about what was happening.

Offline lookout

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Re: Its not a case that Jeremy is guilty its a case of incompetence!
« Reply #10 on: August 13, 2014, 09:12:PM »
Yes , that's what I said he was aware he was killing them , but he said at the time he was devoid of all feelings or emotions about what was happening.





Which of course is a pointer in paranoid schizophrenics.

Offline Alias

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Re: Its not a case that Jeremy is guilty its a case of incompetence!
« Reply #11 on: August 13, 2014, 09:15:PM »


I know you keep labouring the point that Sheila was over medicated and there WERE times during her stay that she appeared lethargic but it is also true that she ran screaming from the monastery, a VAST distance from WHF. It is also true that she screamed at the man who had come to read the meters. It has also been said that she was seen to be skipping with the twins. All this activity requires an energy, that had she been as severely over medicated as you suggest, she wouldn't have had.

Scipio keeps claiming that Sheila was over medicated. This is not true, Sheila was UNDER medicated.
Sheila had complained to dr. Ferguson that she was uable to sleep. Dr. Ferguson thought it might be because of the high dosis of Haldol Sheila was injected each month (200 mg), so he recommended that the next injection would be reduced to  150 mg. A VERY COMMON SIDE EFFECT OF HALDOL IS INSOMNIA - a fact scipio chooses to ignore and calls me a "fool" for putting forward. I didn´t make it up!
Dr. Ferguson was ANGRY when he learned that dr. Wilkinson had only given her 100 mg for her next injection, he was angry about the UNDER medication, not OVER medication as scipio keeps claiming. He is twisting the truth, you could also say, lying.
It is unclear why dr. Wilkinson did not follow dr. Fergusons´s recommendation.
More than that, it was a while since Sheila had received her HALF dose of Haldol at the time of the murder, so the dosage in her system was running low.

I know that scipio will come again with his untrue claims - I am not going to bother reading it this time....


Offline scipio_usmc

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Re: Its not a case that Jeremy is guilty its a case of incompetence!
« Reply #12 on: August 13, 2014, 09:42:PM »
Scipio keeps claiming that Sheila was over medicated. This is not true, Sheila was UNDER medicated.
Sheila had complained to dr. Ferguson that she was uable to sleep. Dr. Ferguson thought it might be because of the high dosis of Haldol Sheila was injected each month (200 mg), so he recommended that the next injection would be reduced to  150 mg. A VERY COMMON SIDE EFFECT OF HALDOL IS INSOMNIA - a fact scipio chooses to ignore and calls me a "fool" for putting forward. I didn´t make it up!
Dr. Ferguson was ANGRY when he learned that dr. Wilkinson had only given her 100 mg for her next injection, he was angry about the UNDER medication, not OVER medication as scipio keeps claiming. He is twisting the truth, you could also say, lying.
It is unclear why dr. Wilkinson did not follow dr. Fergusons´s recommendation.
More than that, it was a while since Sheila had received her HALF dose of Haldol at the time of the murder, so the dosage in her system was running low.

I know that scipio will come again with his untrue claims - I am not going to bother reading it this time....

You have things wrong. 

1) Insomnia is not actually a side effect of Haloperidol.  Restlessness is often misconstrued and misreported as insomnia.  Insomnia is a side effect of the counter medications. 

2) While Team Bamber claimed she was complaining of insomnia and not taking her medication on fact she complained about being tired and sleepy.  Read the actual statements from the doctors.  The same way they lied about her not taking her medication (she was talking her haloperidol just not taking the counter medication) they lied and misrepresented her complaint of being tired and sleepy as insomnia.

If you want to claim to be looking for the truth then stop relying on the characterizations of documents from Team Jeremy and read them yourself.  In th epast i made the mistake of running with claims they made but no longer because now I check things.


http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,1203.0.html

http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,1206.0.html

as plain as day both state her reduction in dosage was because of tiredness not insomnia.  The claim from Jeremy advocates that blamed insomnia for the reduction were lies to make it seem like she would have a reason not be awake because she had a history of insomnia.

Colin and many others cited how she was sleepy, vacant and talked slowly and these were described as her being a uch different person.  Jeremy supporters tried to say that proves she was getting dleusional but that is not at all what they meant by different.

Here is where Ferguson says these are classic signs of over medication:

http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,1201.0.html


 
Politeness is organized indifference- Paul Valéry

Offline lookout

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Re: Its not a case that Jeremy is guilty its a case of incompetence!
« Reply #13 on: August 13, 2014, 09:46:PM »
Oh sod off know it all--------------You're WRONG !

Offline JackiePreece

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Re: Its not a case that Jeremy is guilty its a case of incompetence!
« Reply #14 on: August 13, 2014, 10:02:PM »
A total waste of space!!!

Sheila was in a desperate place and Jeremy wouldn't even have been aware. The only person who recognised how close to the edge Sheila was happened to be Colin and he let her down when she must needed him the most

Why didn't Colin make EVERYONE aware of his feelings about the state of his ex partner?
"No hour of life is wasted that is spent in the saddle" Winston Churchill