Order of Inheritance

[scipio_usmc]

I wonder how much truth there is in Scipio's assertion that Jeremy drove a 5 mph. I don't believe that "fact" has ever been previously mentioned by anyone else...........................of course, because he will NEVER allow anyone else to be right, he'll probably cover himself by saying that before a vehicle can accelerate to X mph, it HAS to have travelled at 5 mph OR he was seen to be travelling at that speed, having pulled up at a junction -I believe there to be 3 between Head St and Pages Lane- and braked or gone down through the gears.

The relaity is that if he drove there as fast as he always drove there then he would have arrived before police did.

Police said that he was driving extremely slow, he then pulled over when they got close, he then arrived 3 minutes after them.

His excuse is that he stopped to put on a sweater.  he had no explaantion for why he was driving so slow that he didn't arrive there before the police and instead they encountered him still on his way.

Rational people recognize this for what it is.  He ordinarily drove to and from WHF fast.  Anyone in his position would have been driving there even faster to try to arrive and investigate.  He instead drove as slow as possible to make sure he could stop, wait and pull up 3 minutes after police so that police could say he arrived after them and thus he could have an alibi of sorts.

His actions were not natural actions demonstrating any concern for his fmaily but rather calulated acitons.  That is why on the stand when asked what took him so long to either drive or there ot investigate or to clal police that he said he did not think there was anything urgent about Nevill's plea but after thinking about it a while he changed his mind and became concerned so then he finally called police. 

Only a fool would fail to recognize his lies for what they are.  The only other option is peopel who are so biase din his famvor that they refuse to face logic and relaity to support his BS.

Isn't it funny how his most staunch supporters claim to have friends who knew Jeremy or the victims and rely on that for their beliefs that Jeremy would not have done it.  That is called bias. 

 

[Jane]

The relaity is that if he drove there as fast as he always drove there then he would have arrived before police did.

Police said that he was driving extremely slow, he then pulled over when they got close, he then arrived 3 minutes after them.

His excuse is that he stopped to put on a sweater.  he had no explaantion for why he was driving so slow that he didn't arrive there before the police and instead they encountered him still on his way.

Rational people recognize this for what it is.  He ordinarily drove to and from WHF fast.  Anyone in his position would have been driving there even faster to try to arrive and investigate.  He instead drove as slow as possible to make sure he could stop, wait and pull up 3 minutes after police so that police could say he arrived after them and thus he could have an alibi of sorts.

His actions were not natural actions demonstrating any concern for his fmaily but rather calulated acitons.  That is why on the stand when asked what took him so long to either drive or there ot investigate or to clal police that he said he did not think there was anything urgent about Nevill's plea but after thinking about it a while he changed his mind and became concerned so then he finally called police. 

Only a fool would fail to recognize his lies for what they are.  The only other option is peopel who are so biase din his famvor that they refuse to face logic and relaity to support his BS.

Isn't it funny how his most staunch supporters claim to have friends who knew Jeremy or the victims and rely on that for their beliefs that Jeremy would not have done it.  That is called bias.

All that aside, you claim to ONLY deal in facts, ergo ONLY provide US with facts. Where is it written as fact that Jeremy travelled to WHF at 5 mph?

[scipio_usmc]

All that aside, you claim to ONLY deal in facts, ergo ONLY provide US with facts. Where is it written as fact that Jeremy travelled to WHF at 5 mph?

It is a figure of speech but he definitey had to be driving extremely slow that last leg of the journey.
It normally only took him 3-5 minutes to drive there since he drove so fast. The drive was timed at 7 minutes for someone driving only 25MPH who wasn't even used to the ride.

How far was the last leg of the journey to WHF?  A minute.  How slow would he have to be traveling for police to come out of no where, overtake him and then leave him in the dust?  Why would he not drive for a minute more then put on a sweater as he got out of the car but instead stop to put on a sweater when it was not even cold out and wait a while before finally driving the last half mile?  He was driving slow so police could overtake him and once they were coming he pulled over hoping they would not notice he had just pulled his car on the side of the road and waited there a couple of minutes before completing the last minute of his journey.  When they noted they saw him pulled over (so his hope they would think it was just some parked car on the road failed) and aske dhim what he was doing and what took him so long he made up the sweater excuse.

This behavior is suspicious and makes little sense but when combined with everything else it fits into place and actually makes sense.   People do things for a reason and while those things may not make sense to others it makes sense to the person doing it.   The entire situation reveals what his motivation actually was.

[Jane]

It is a figure of speech but he definitey had to be driving extremely slow that last leg of the journey.
It normally only took him 3-5 minutes to drive there since he drove so fast. The drive was timed at 7 minutes for someone driving only 25MPH who wasn't even used to the ride.

How far was the last leg of the journey to WHF?  A minute.  How slow would he have to be traveling for police to come out of no where, overtake him and then leave him in the dust?  Why would he not drive for a minute more then put on a sweater as he got out of the car but instead stop to put on a sweater when it was not even cold out and wait a while before finally driving the last half mile?  He was driving slow so police could overtake him and once they were coming he pulled over hoping they would not notice he had just pulled his car on the side of the road and waited there a couple of minutes before completing the last minute of his journey.  When they noted they saw him pulled over (so his hope they would think it was just some parked car on the road failed) and aske dhim what he was doing and what took him so long he made up the sweater excuse.

This behavior is suspicious and makes little sense but when combined with everything else it fits into place and actually makes sense.   People do things for a reason and while those things may not make sense to others it makes sense to the person doing it.   The entire situation reveals what his motivation actually was.

OK, let's be clear on this. YOU make sweeping statements -ASSUMPTIONS- that because you ONLY deal in facts, aren 't LIES, but FIGURES OF SPEECH. However, should one of us present with what YOU call assumptions, we're LIARS and any other vulgarity you happen to call to hand.

Whatever you're attempting to define and thus wriggle out of admitting to having erred -and I suspect where there is one error, one will UNDOUBTEDLY find others- ISN'T what's at point here, it's what YOU'VE resorted to to make that point when you spend much of your time accusing us of the same thing.

[grahameb]

The relaity is that if he drove there as fast as he always drove there then he would have arrived before police did.

Police said that he was driving extremely slow, he then pulled over when they got close, he then arrived 3 minutes after them.

His excuse is that he stopped to put on a sweater.  he had no explaantion for why he was driving so slow that he didn't arrive there before the police and instead they encountered him still on his way.

Rational people recognize this for what it is.  He ordinarily drove to and from WHF fast.  Anyone in his position would have been driving there even faster to try to arrive and investigate.  He instead drove as slow as possible to make sure he could stop, wait and pull up 3 minutes after police so that police could say he arrived after them and thus he could have an alibi of sorts.

His actions were not natural actions demonstrating any concern for his fmaily but rather calulated acitons.  That is why on the stand when asked what took him so long to either drive or there ot investigate or to clal police that he said he did not think there was anything urgent about Nevill's plea but after thinking about it a while he changed his mind and became concerned so then he finally called police. 

Only a fool would fail to recognize his lies for what they are.  The only other option is peopel who are so biase din his famvor that they refuse to face logic and relaity to support his BS.

Isn't it funny how his most staunch supporters claim to have friends who knew Jeremy or the victims and rely on that for their beliefs that Jeremy would not have done it.  That is called bias.

I hate to say it, but this is exactly what I would do. Especially if the police instructed me to do so. The plain fact is that those who are staunchly biased against him simply refuse to see anything innocent in anything that Bamber did. Now THAT'S not normal if you ask me?

[grahameb]

It is a figure of speech but he definitey had to be driving extremely slow that last leg of the journey.
It normally only took him 3-5 minutes to drive there since he drove so fast. The drive was timed at 7 minutes for someone driving only 25MPH who wasn't even used to the ride.

How far was the last leg of the journey to WHF?  A minute.  How slow would he have to be traveling for police to come out of no where, overtake him and then leave him in the dust?  Why would he not drive for a minute more then put on a sweater as he got out of the car but instead stop to put on a sweater when it was not even cold out and wait a while before finally driving the last half mile?  He was driving slow so police could overtake him and once they were coming he pulled over hoping they would not notice he had just pulled his car on the side of the road and waited there a couple of minutes before completing the last minute of his journey.  When they noted they saw him pulled over (so his hope they would think it was just some parked car on the road failed) and aske dhim what he was doing and what took him so long he made up the sweater excuse.

This behavior is suspicious and makes little sense but when combined with everything else it fits into place and actually makes sense.   People do things for a reason and while those things may not make sense to others it makes sense to the person doing it.   The entire situation reveals what his motivation actually was.

More like an exageration rather than a figure of speech. This was how lies became accepted as truth. I drove at 40mph and it took me 9 minutes. It is in fact further than people think from Bamber's house to WHF. So what sense does it make if he did drive slower than he normally did? If he wanted to make sure he arrived after the police all he had to do was leave it for 5 minutes and then start out. You must not forget, he was obeying the police, who stressed that he should wait for them to arrive at the farm. I would probably have done the same?

[scipio_usmc]

More like an exageration rather than a figure of speech. This was how lies became accepted as truth. I drove at 40mph and it took me 9 minutes. It is in fact further than people think from Bamber's house to WHF. So what sense does it make if he did drive slower than he nor mally did? If he wanted to make sure he arrived after the police all he had to do was leave it for 5 minutes and then start out. You must not forget, he was obeying the police, who stressed that he should wait for them to arrive at the farm. I would probably have done the same?

There is no evidenc epolice told him to wait for them they told him to meet them there.  Jerey supporters make up in their mind tha tpolice would tell him to make sure to wait for them.

The reality is that someone in his poisiton who ACTUALLY recieved the call alleged would have either drive over immediatley as fast as possible and tred to help in some manner or whould have claled police and then ran over, waited for police and tried to convince police to do something.

Whether it is a fire or a report of a gunman family either ties to go in themselves to saved loved ones or plead with responders to do something.

He did neither.  He lied about Sheila having an arsenal as her disposal, being proficient with all the weapons and calmly talked about cars.

His actions were totally incinsistent with those of someone who had actually received the call he claims to have received.  Indeed at trial he admitted he didn't call police right away as he had originally told police he had done.  He said he didn't think the situation was urgent at first and only after thinking about it a while did he do anything.  So instead of rushing over or immediately calling police he did nothing senseing no urgency and only after thinking a while did he decide it was serious so better call police. Not only do his claims make no sense and have no credibility he cna't even remain consistent in his claims. 

He was clearly only interested in trying to create an alibi and that alibi was that he was home when the trouble happened.  If the bodies were found in the mornign with him simply saying he knew nothign and wa sin bed who could confirm he was in bed all night?  No one.  So he decided to make up a story that blamed Sheila and that established he was home.  So he made up receiving a call and then called Julie so she could say he called her worried so she could confirm his acocunt he received a worrying call form WHF.  He wanted police to pick him up so they could see he was home and when that failed he made sure he arrived after them.

Julie was not around when he puked.  She learned from him that he had puked when he told her that he forced himself to puke to try to fool them into thinking he was upset because he had been too calm with them.   

Your diehard defense of Jeremy no matter what even on simple issues like this is why you should just stop the farce of proclaiming you are objective and not a Jeremy supporter.  Your proclamations are not credible. 

[grahameb]

There is no evidenc epolice told him to wait for them they told him to meet them there.  Jerey supporters make up in their mind tha tpolice would tell him to make sure to wait for them.

The reality is that someone in his poisiton who ACTUALLY recieved the call alleged would have either drive over immediatley as fast as possible and tred to help in some manner or whould have claled police and then ran over, waited for police and tried to convince police to do something.

Whether it is a fire or a report of a gunman family either ties to go in themselves to saved loved ones or plead with responders to do something.

He did neither.  He lied about Sheila having an arsenal as her disposal, being proficient with all the weapons and calmly talked about cars.

His actions were totally incinsistent with those of someone who had actually received the call he claims to have received.  Indeed at trial he admitted he didn't call police right away as he had originally told police he had done.  He said he didn't think the situation was urgent at first and only after thinking about it a while did he do anything.  So instead of rushing over or immediately calling police he did nothing senseing no urgency and only after thinking a while did he decide it was serious so better call police. Not only do his claims make no sense and have no credibility he cna't even remain consistent in his claims. 

He was clearly only interested in trying to create an alibi and that alibi was that he was home when the trouble happened.  If the bodies were found in the mornign with him simply saying he knew nothign and wa sin bed who could confirm he was in bed all night?  No one.  So he decided to make up a story that blamed Sheila and that established he was home.  So he made up receiving a call and then called Julie so she could say he called her worried so she could confirm his acocunt he received a worrying call form WHF.  He wanted police to pick him up so they could see he was home and when that failed he made sure he arrived after them.

Julie was not around when he puked.  She learned from him that he had puked when he told her that he forced himself to puke to try to fool them into thinking he was upset because he had been too calm with them.   

Your diehard defense of Jeremy no matter what even on simple issues like this is why you should just stop the farce of proclaiming you are objective and not a Jeremy supporter.  Your proclamations are not credible.

I don't know why you feel compelled to go on about this matter? What difference does it it make to you what my beliefs are. I told you where I stand and can't really see any reason why you should doubt me. Unfortunately you do not understand me when I suggest that you should begin to think sideways. All you do instead of looking at this case from all sides, you tend to funnel everything into one of your neat scenarios.
I am not like that. I doubt everybody and everything. I like to turn things inside out and upside down as you do with any jigsaw. Quite frankly I find your scenarios and indeed your thinking to be too simplistic and there are obviously things that you haven't considered. When you find a piece of evidence you tend to manufacture something or exagerate something else in order for it to read right. When in actual fact you may be looking at it in completely the wrong way.
Also I doubt most verdicts in the law courts these days as I have long since lost faith in the British justice system and I always tend rather to lean towards the person found guilty as I always seem to favour the underdog, unless of course things are blatently obvious. This case is not one of those cases. What you see as cut and dried, others see complications and difficulties. It does not mean that those people who think differently are dumb, or stupid. Neither does it mean that you are necessarily right.

[Jan]

scipio
"There is no evidenc epolice told him to wait for them they told him to meet them there.  Jerey supporters make up in their mind tha tpolice would tell him to make sure to wait for them.

The reality is that someone in his poisiton who ACTUALLY recieved the call alleged would have either drive over immediatley as fast as possible and tred to help in some manner or whould have claled police and then ran over, waited for police and tried to convince police to do something"



so its perfectly all right for armed police who are paid to protect life to wait outside for hours , but you expect Jeremy to just rush in when the police had told him to meet them.

yea sure.

[scipio_usmc]

scipio
"There is no evidenc epolice told him to wait for them they told him to meet them there.  Jerey supporters make up in their mind tha tpolice would tell him to make sure to wait for them.

The reality is that someone in his poisiton who ACTUALLY recieved the call alleged would have either drive over immediatley as fast as possible and tred to help in some manner or whould have claled police and then ran over, waited for police and tried to convince police to do something"



so its perfectly all right for armed police who are paid to protect life to wait outside for hours , but you expect Jeremy to just rush in when the police had told him to meet them.

yea sure.

Armed police are professionals who are paid to follow police procedure that is designed to try to protect the lives of civilians and their own lives as well. Unlike the UK in the US all police are armed and in situations where they think there is a hostage situation they don't rush insisde they first try to talk a situation down.  They also make sure they have a secure perimeter before going inside.  They don't want to go in the front only to have an armed criminal run out the back.

Jeremy was a relative who had a vested interest in entering to find out what happened and try to help.  He knew his sister had never fired a gun and that she probably would have no idea how to chamber a round let alone know she needed to chamber a round before the gun would operate.  I would have arrived before police and have gone inside.  He pretended there was no way in knowing there was and if there was no way in that is yet another reason why Nevill's call to him made no sense. People in his place have to be held back by professionals from entering.  Instead he made sure police got there first, intentionally pulling over to make sure they beat him and demonstrated no concern for them at all in all of his actions including having to force himself to get sick thinking about them dead wasn't enough he had to think about a dead dog he loved.

[grahameb]

Armed police are professionals who are paid to follow police procedure that is designed to try to protect the lives of civilians and their own lives as well. Unlike the UK in the US all police are armed and in situations where they think there is a hostage situation they don't rush insisde they first try to talk a situation down.  They also make sure they have a secure perimeter before going inside.  They don't want to go in the front only to have an armed criminal run out the back.

Jeremy was a relative who had a vested interest in entering to find out what happened and try to help.  He knew his sister had never fired a gun and that she probably would have no idea how to chamber a round let alone know she needed to chamber a round before the gun would operate.  I would have arrived before police and have gone inside.  He pretended there was no way in knowing there was and if there was no way in that is yet another reason why Nevill's call to him made no sense. People in his place have to be held back by professionals from entering.  Instead he made sure police got there first, intentionally pulling over to make sure they beat him and demonstrated no concern for them at all in all of his actions including having to force himself to get sick thinking about them dead wasn't enough he had to think about a dead dog he loved.

First of all I gave a perfectly good explanation as to why he would wait for the police. And added that if he really wanted to he would have planned ahead and instead of parking up as you say, all he had to do was wait at home for a few minutes. Again he did what I would have done, waited for the police. You said you would not. Fair enough, people are different.
Again when his father phoned (I haven't seen anywhere when he told the police there was no way in?) he obviously thought that he was still alive and that his father would have opened the door for him?
Lastly depicted in red. He didn't love the dog. He hated it.

[scipio_usmc]

First of all I gave a perfectly good explanation as to why he would wait for the police. And added that if he really wanted to he would have planned ahead and instead of parking up as you say, all he had to do was wait at home for a few minutes. Again he did what I would have done, waited for the police. You said you would not. Fair enough, people are different.
Again when his father phoned (I haven't seen anywhere when he told the police there was no way in?) he obviously thought that he was still alive and that his father would have opened the door for him?
Lastly depicted in red. He didn't love the dog. He hated it.

All you do is make pitiful excuses for Jeremy though you profess objectivity

Your explanation was poor.  You made up the bogus claim police told him to wait for them.  You ignored that he knew his sister lacked dexterity, had never fired the murder weapon and would have been unlikely to be able to operate it.  Most people in his place would have gone themselves if they received such a call and would have told police these things as well not lie and say she was proficient with the weapons.

He asked police to pick him up but they refused and told him to meet them there. Instead of going he stayed on the phone waiting for them to tell him when they arrived so he could go over after that.  The police ended the call telling him to go over.    Since the call was ended he had no way to be told when police arrived.  So he set out and drove slow so that he could pull over when the police appeared. He did just that, made the drive by and then waited a while before finishing the last minute of the journey.  All so that police could arrive first.

Only the most biased of people try spinning this as not highly suspicious.

[tyler]

Wow..this thread has gone seriously off topic hasn't it? Lol

[scipio_usmc]

Wow..this thread has gone seriously off topic hasn't it? Lol

What else is new...

As I said before I have yet to see a thread stay on topic.  I tried in the past to bring them back on topic but my efforts were repelled so I have given up trying.  The subject field is not needed we should just number the threads.

 

[grahameb]

All you do is make pitiful excuses for Jeremy though you profess objectivity

Your explanation was poor.  You made up the bogus claim police told him to wait for them.  You ignored that he knew his sister lacked dexterity, had never fired the murder weapon and would have been unlikely to be able to operate it.  Most people in his place would have gone themselves if they received such a call and would have told police these things as well not lie and say she was proficient with the weapons.

He asked police to pick him up but they refused and told him to meet them there. Instead of going he stayed on the phone waiting for them to tell him when they arrived so he could go over after that.  The police ended the call telling him to go over.    Since the call was ended he had no way to be told when police arrived.  So he set out and drove slow so that he could pull over when the police appeared. He did just that, made the drive by and then waited a while before finishing the last minute of the journey.  All so that police could arrive first.

Only the most biased of people try spinning this as not highly suspicious.

scipio please show me where he asked the police to pick him up or direct me to where he said that.
Also my explanation is just as objective as yours. After all there are both only just opinions, as we can't get into the heads of either Jeremy or Sheila. What is so illogical in suggesting that he could have achieved the same object if he had stayed at home for a few minutes rather that "parking up" as you call it?