Did Jeremy have the 'opportunity' to commit the massacre ?

[Alias]

They should have crawled out of that "fanlight" window to prove it, then shut it....

[Jan]

They should have crawled out of that "fanlight" window to prove it, then shut it....

exactly.

And his  foot prints would have been all over the sill - or did he lean back in and wipe those as well.

[lookout]

 Jeremy's quite the contortionist,isn't he ? After 17 hours harvesting too,some feat,eh ?

[scipio_usmc]

I noticed something else, the one who claims the bathroom window was locked was DCI Jones, he claims he checked all the windows.  I don't particularly believe he went to eveyr window personally and tried ot open them.  The bathroom window was unlocked when checked in the afternoon and while police kept track of which windows they touched that is one that was not supposedly touched. This calls Taff Jones' claim into even more question. 

[Jan]

I noticed something else, the one who claims the bathroom window was locked was DCI Jones, he claims he checked all the windows.  I don't particularly believe he went to eveyr window personally and tried ot open them.  The bathroom window was unlocked when checked in the afternoon and while police kept track of which windows they touched that is one that was not supposedly touched. This calls Taff Jones' claim into even more question.

There were other officers beside Jones who confirmed the ground floor was secure on entry .

[Alias]

Jeremy wasn´t that thin, actually rather stockily built with a little bit of a stomach and balloon-butt (as I´ve seen in another photo). No way he could have crawled through that window. But of course, the robin was adamant and shat there, so.....

[maggie]

Jeremy wasn´t that thin, actually rather stockily built with a little bit of a stomach and balloon-butt (as I´ve seen in another photo). No way he could have crawled through that window. But of course, the robin was adamant and shat there, so.....

He would decfo have got stuck Alias, especially as they say he had a big head, he would NEVER have got that through there!!!!!

[Adam]

Jeremy was thin. As highlighted in many pictures and videos.

[Adam]

I don't remember AE stating that however they were never seen to do it therefore as we are not in a court of law but on a discussion forum site I would say anyone can say anything but it proves nothing. The police tried to do it and didn't succeed, they later stated the fact they were unable to do it.

Read her WS.

[grahameb]

It was proven by the family.  You don't need police to testify to something if someone else can testify to it.  The family testified they WERE able to close the window and lock it from outside.  Their testimony is proof. You schoose not to believe them becaus eof bias but have no evidence ot prove they were incapable of doing what they claim.

I'm afraid that just because they said it could be done is not actual proof that it could be done. It should have been checked that it could be done by the police which I believe was not done. So the onus is on the family to prove it. Not upon the defence to prove that it cannot be done.

[Adam]

Why didn't the defence prove it could not be done ? Not hard to do.

The 2002 appeal mentions the lockable from outside window. So it was proved at trial.

Being able to bang lock a window from outside is no big deal.

[scipio_usmc]

I'm afraid that just because they said it could be done is not actual proof that it could be done. It should have been checked that it could be done by the police which I believe was not done. So the onus is on the family to prove it. Not upon the defence to prove that it cannot be done.

The prosecution was under no obligation to prove how the entry and exit occurred. It is not an element of the crime.  They offered several pieces of evidence that it could be done though they didn't have to.  The fact Sheila didn't kill herself was enough to say it happened there was no need to prove how entry occurred. Only the element of a crime must be proven beyond a reasonable doubt.

The defense in this case did need to rebut the claims made by proving it impossible. But they couldn't indeed a ladder could have been used even.  That is why the appeal court declared:

"The Crown did not have the burden of proving by which window and by which mechanism the entry was made. The Crown proved capacity both to enter and leave."

At any rate he stated he could get in through the kitchen window:

"He told the police that there were occasions when he gained entry to his parents' home by way of a number of the downstairs windows including those in the kitchen and the bathroom. He explained that he used a knife to move the catches in order that the window could be opened from the outside."

http://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWCA/Crim/2002/2912.html

[lookout]

Jeremy was thin. As highlighted in many pictures and videos.

He was a tall ungainly man who probably never climbed a tree,let alone a skylight or fanlight.

Christ,I've heard everything now. Bicycle,wetsuit,fanlight--------can it get any worse ? Of course it can,out of the gobs of idiots !

[Adam]

He was a tall ungainly man who probably never climbed a tree,let alone a skylight or fanlight.

Christ,I've heard everything now. Bicycle,wetsuit,fanlight--------can it get any worse ? Of course it can,out of the gobs of idiots !

Jeremy said himself when interviewed by the police he could get in and out of windows at WHF.

I wonder if he sang this to them ? 

[Adam]

Fanlight ?

I have never mentioned a wetsuit. I have only seen Bob Woffinden mentioning it. He bravely changed his mind on the case.

However I do not agree with him that Jeremy killed the twins first. Too risky in case Neville, June or Sheila hear him. The evidence shows he entered the main bedroom first. Fully loaded.