Unidentified Male, seen at Whf, PC Myall, at 3.45am...

[Paul]

*chuckles*

[mike tesko]

As I say, PC Myall claims he saw an unidentified male at whf at 3:45am - and what is more, EP went out of their way to try and identify who that male person was? One thing is absolutely sure, and that is that that person was not Jeremy Bamber...

According to another version of the evidence, Myall, Bews and Saxby, were not at the scene, and did not arrive there, until, 3:48am...

Which version are we to believe?

[mb1]

The big question I ask, on JB's behalf is this - who was the unidentified male that PC Myall saw at whf, at 3:45am? If that male person was Ralph Bamber, how could JB have already shot him no less than 8 times and killed him in the kitchen (how did RB get downstairs after the sighting)?

If the male person who was seen by PC Myall was not RB, why did EP set out to make JB the person who had gone into whf to kill everyone, and stage manage the scene to make it look like Sheila killed the others, and that she then took her own life? If PC Myall saw an unidentified male person at the scene, at 3:45am, then th circumstances of that sighting have a direct bearing on how JB was framed for the murders as though he himself had carried them out?

I demand answers to these questions from EP, from the DPP / CPS..

But EP initially set out a suicide/murderers - as documented to the world wide press.
Suicide questioned later by silencer, SC's forensic results etc.

If the contention is that EP arrived at WHF and from the off they (and all subsequently associated professionals + family etc) decided it was get JB year... then supporting evidence must be posted.

To Mike Tesko - you state we are pressuring you. The only person pressuring you is you, due to asserting new certainities that contradict your old certainties.
If you are forbidden from posting certain documents say so, but confirm who has them and when they received them.
It just seems strange if you are allowed to quote material yet not post it - can you see that?
It would also be unfair as it is only natural that you'd want to share any exciting/new developments, but being unable to post make you a sitting target.

I don't see what would be wrong in Mike saying:

I believe I have evidence to the contrary that when I am granted permission to expose will change your assertions, but until I can do so, based on the available evidence, you're right".

It seems so difficult for him to say.

I do accept Mike has access to much material most of us don't (or have not had years to collect), but still, that does not grant license to expect everybody to believe every word and take it all at face value.

Given the assertions being made when there IS evidence, and still there's too much ambiguity it give me not faith at all that stuff we can't see is being interpreted any better.

I'm currently of the opinion that Mike's not really faced a concerted opposition, or evaluation of his assertions, and now that's happening, much is found wanting.

Mike's unwavering view of JB's innocence (tainted by his own unfortunate experiences with the Police) are causing him to interpret evidence only in ways that might help reach his conclusion, rather than form a conclusion based on the evidence.

It's a crying shame really, because as cynical as I am, I can still see a slim hope for JB. It's small mercy Mike's not representing him. They'd both end up in a cell and quite possibly, one of them would be padded.

The big question I ask, on JB's behalf is this - who was the unidentified male that PC Myall saw at whf, at 3:45am? If that male person was Ralph Bamber, how could JB have already shot him no less than 8 times and killed him in the kitchen (how did RB get downstairs after the sighting)?

If the male person who was seen by PC Myall was not RB, why did EP set out to make JB the person who had gone into whf to kill everyone, and stage manage the scene to make it look like Sheila killed the others, and that she then took her own life? If PC Myall saw an unidentified male person at the scene, at 3:45am, then th circumstances of that sighting have a direct bearing on how JB was framed for the murders as though he himself had carried them out?

I demand answers to these questions from EP, from the DPP / CPS..

But EP initially set out a suicide/murderers - as documented to the world wide press.
Suicide questioned later by silencer, SC's forensic results etc.

If the contention is that EP arrived at WHF and from the off they (and all subsequently associated professionals + family etc) decided it was get JB year... then supporting evidence must be posted.

To Mike Tesko - you state we are pressuring you. The only person pressuring you is you, due to asserting new certainities that contradict your old certainties.
If you are forbidden from posting certain documents say so, but confirm who has them and when they received them.
It just seems strange if you are allowed to quote material yet not post it - can you see that?
It would also be unfair as it is only natural that you'd want to share any exciting/new developments, but being unable to post make you a sitting target.

I don't see what would be wrong in Mike saying:

I believe I have evidence to the contrary that when I am granted permission to expose will change your assertions, but until I can do so, based on the available evidence, you're right".

It seems so difficult for him to say.

I do accept Mike has access to much material most of us don't (or have not had years to collect), but still, that does not grant license to expect everybody to believe every word and take it all at face value.

Given the assertions being made when there IS evidence, and still there's too much ambiguity it give me not faith at all that stuff we can't see is being interpreted any better.

I'm currently of the opinion that Mike's not really faced a concerted opposition, or evaluation of his assertions, and now that's happening, much is found wanting.

Mike's unwavering view of JB's innocence (tainted by his own unfortunate experiences with the Police) are causing him to interpret evidence only in ways that might help reach his conclusion, rather than form a conclusion based on the evidence.

It's a crying shame really, because as cynical as I am, I can still see a slim hope for JB. It's small mercy Mike's not representing him. They'd both end up in a cell and quite possibly, one of them would be padded.

TBM

That's not quite fair. Mike T would make a lousy silk but a fantastic gofer/investigator for the team.
They would just need to drink lots of coffee!
Does anyone worry that he's set up as a 'fall guy' to test new theories?

Liking the developing 'Master' pages.
One concern - paranoid schizophrenia is not curable, but can be controlled with medication. Perhaps the wording needs to be a little stronger for the sake of balance.

My youngest sister's a psychiatric nurse (mother was for 30 years - lots of famous people for patients!). I'll try and get my sister to post, perhaps one evening when she has time to answer any questions.

[simong]

Ok, i have had my brother out and about. He drives a VW Passat and i have had him driving different routes that EP could have taken that night. He drove as quickly as possible breaking speed limits, is a Class 1 driver. He says there was no traffic. Witham Police station Newland street to Pages lane- 21 minutes. He says that was the route he belived EP would have taken. He knows the area well and says on a different route that locals would know, he did it in 16 minutes.

Didn't the Police park away from the farmhouse and walk down Pages Lane. I would assume this would take a couple of minutes. My brother and I personally think it would be very hard to receive a call at 3.16am, take all the details, deploy a car from Witham and spot someone 29 minutes later at WHF. In our opinion.

[paulg]

Hi Bro and others

Yes,just been out driving the various routes from Witham-Tollesbury, but having read this thread, a pointless excercise.

So let me get this straight, are we bothered about timings, or what the police might have seen?

So the gunmen shoots the old man whilst in the kitchen on the phone, then waits around for 30 minutes to wave to the police from the bedroom window? Or, does the sister blow her brains out after waving to the police from the bedroom window, but the shots were not heard from ouside?

The police that were first on the scene, would have been so jumpy, that the slightest shadow or noise would have been a potential gunman/gunwoman.

There were no people alive in the house when the police arrived IMHO.

[mb1]

Hi Bro and others

Yes,just been out driving the various routes from Witham-Tollesbury, but having read this thread, a pointless excercise.

So let me get this straight, are we bothered about timings, or what the police might have seen?

So the gunmen shoots the old man whilst in the kitchen on the phone, then waits around for 30 minutes to wave to the police from the bedroom window? Or, does the sister blow her brains out after waving to the police from the bedroom window, but the shots were not heard from ouside?

The police that were first on the scene, would have been so jumpy, that the slightest shadow or noise would have been a potential gunman/gunwoman.

There were no people alive in the house when the police arrived IMHO.

Welcome PaulG.
SimonG must be a cruel brother to entice you here.
Run!

[chelmsey]

Now I really dont want to upset the applecart here but I feel I need to back MT up.I too have recently seen PC Myalls Incident Report Project (I think thats what it was called)It is somewhere on line.I will try to find it again and post it up. I cant remember the times but it did clearly state - Unidentified Person at location whf.There were two further times underneath both which stated Unidentified Person at location Pages Lane.

[Reader]

PC Myall claims he saw an unidentified male at whf at 3:45am - and what is more, EP went out of their way to try and identify who that male person was?

That's incorrect. You stated that a police document (MIP for short) gives the time as 3.45am. However, that document was constructed well after the event. You have relied on this time given in the document being correct, but it's possible that it isn't, either deliberately or accidentally. Posting the MIP here wouldn't change that. There is no available document written by Pc Myall in which he times his sighting as occurring at 3.45, and he didn't give that time at Jeremy's trial. The available pages of the wireless message log start at 4.02am, so no corroboration there either. What EP did to try to identify the person has no bearing on when the sighting occurred.

[chelmsey]

Yes,I think the police officers and JB got out of the car to approach the house at 04.02am.Would I be correct on that?

[chelmsey]

Aaaah.I have it in front of me         

Major Incident Project

It states - 0345   S11 MYALL     UNIDENT MALE 0001            WHITE HSE   FM

[Reader]

Where was that posted?

[chelmsey]

Where was that posted?

Ive just been looking for it all over the internet,and it was in front of me all that time (doh)!There is a photograph of it in Scott Lomaxs book.The thing is,it is not dated.It looks more like some kind of survelliance thing to me because it is in columns.Here is what is underneath PC MYALLS sighting as in previous post....

2011   N94            UNIDENT MALE 0029    PAGES LN
2015   N94            UNIDENT MALE 0038    PAGES LN

[mike tesko]

Ok, i have had my brother out and about. He drives a VW Passat and i have had him driving different routes that EP could have taken that night. He drove as quickly as possible breaking speed limits, is a Class 1 driver. He says there was no traffic. Witham Police station Newland street to Pages lane- 21 minutes. He says that was the route he belived EP would have taken. He knows the area well and says on a different route that locals would know, he did it in 16 minutes.

Didn't the Police park away from the farmhouse and walk down Pages Lane. I would assume this would take a couple of minutes. My brother and I personally think it would be very hard to receive a call at 3.16am, take all the details, deploy a car from Witham and spot someone 29 minutes later at WHF. In our opinion.

... First thing - CA7 was deployed to the scene at 3.35am, according to the timing recorded on Bonnets phone log, so using that as a marker, and based on the timings you have supplied, at best CA7 would / could have arrived at the scene in a window of opportunity, betweem, 3.46am and 3.56am - too late for PC Myall to have made his sighting of the unidentified male at the scene by 3.45am. But, a sighting nevertheles was made at that time - so, we can be sure that CA7 and its occupants, including PC Myall must have been / were deployed to the scene beforehand, long before 3.35am. It doesn't matter what PC Myall saw or not, what actualky matters, is the fact that PC Myall was there at the scene, at 3.45am to see what he saw, and in order to see what he saw at that time, the timings on Bonnets phone log have to be wrong...

[mike tesko]

So, it appears that PC Myall did see an unidentified male at the scene, at 3.45am, afterall?

[mb1]

Where was that posted?

Ive just been looking for it all over the internet,and it was in front of me all that time (doh)!There is a photograph of it in Scott Lomaxs book.The thing is,it is not dated.It looks more like some kind of survelliance thing to me because it is in columns.Here is what is underneath PC MYALLS sighting as in previous post....

2011   N94            UNIDENT MALE 0029    PAGES LN
2015   N94            UNIDENT MALE 0038    PAGES LN

Chelmsley, does Scott Lomax state what this log is or where it's from?

If the reading of the Myall line is correct, does it follow that this 'log' has officer N94 seeing unidenitfied males at 8.11pm and 8.14pm in Pages Lane?

Do the N94 lines follow the Myall line?

Thanks.