foster care.

[Droosie]

I have read somewhere that the twins were in foster care (day care) for a period of time, and that it worked out well for all involved. No idea why it didn´t continue. I think I read it in cennection with Colin Cafell, sonmething he said in a statement? Sorry, simply cannot remember.
But because I have read this (and I am 100% positive I have), I have never understood why Bamber-guilters always say that Jeremy made it up that foster care had been discussed that fateful night. The twins already HAD been in foster care, so it is quite probable it was discussed again.

The twins had been in day foster care I gather but by that point I understand they were in the care of Colin Caffell so there would have been no need to discuss foster care. I suspect that's what those who believe Jeremy to be guilty are referring to.
I need to go back and read a bit more in depth but didn't Colin have residency for two boys? If so then the discussion of foster care becomes invalid...there would have been no need for it.

[Jane]

That is right Alias, i believe also that it was confirmed after the murders that the idea of day care had been discussed with a local woman?
I suppose it is ignored because it doesn't fit with their scenarios in the same way JB HAS to be a psychopath  ......

 Maggie, I wonder if the Bambers were trying to persuade Sheila that it would be better for her to move closer to them. If they saw that her condition had deteriorated, it stand to reason, that as concerned parents, they'd want to help. It wouldn't have been easy for them to put their lives on hold to rush up to London had a crisis occurred, but if she lived locally they could provide child care and /or a daily lady. It would make sense of why a local woman was being talked about.

[Jane]

The twins had been in day foster care I gather but by that point I understand they were in the care of Colin Caffell so there would have been no need to discuss foster care. I suspect that's what those who believe Jeremy to be guilty are referring to.
I need to go back and read a bit more in depth but didn't Colin have residency for two boys? If so then the discussion of foster care becomes invalid...there would have been no need for it.

Droosie, Colin and Sheila usually shared the care of the twins but his announcement of a permanent relationship with Heather MAY have rocked the boat. It's not beyond the realms of possibility that the first thing Sheila told her parents was a distorted version of what Colin had said, implying perhaps that he was moving away, perhaps suggesting that Heather didn't want them and telling her parents she didn't know how she would cope, all of which MAY have lead to a conversation about local fostering. We know that Sheila HATED going to the farm so it would have been the last thing she wanted.

[Droosie]

Ah I see...yes that is possible. Be interesting to know what Colin Caffell thought afterwards...about what was possible and what was unlikely etc.

[Jan]

If you read the statement from JB it looks like the conversation about helping SC with the children had happened before as there was even talk of her moving to his house - but she was apparently determined to stay in London. Then on the night there was a general discussion on how to help her and Foster care was mentioned - but it does not sound like he was listening intently , perhaps he wanted to keep out of it. it could have been  just a throw away comment  whilst going through all the options as they obviously were thinking of her welfare. And JB said when he left they all seemed to be relaxed and happy or words to that affect.

[maggie]

Droosie, Colin and Sheila usually shared the care of the twins but his announcement of a permanent relationship with Heather MAY have rocked the boat. It's not beyond the realms of possibility that the first thing Sheila told her parents was a distorted version of what Colin had said, implying perhaps that he was moving away, perhaps suggesting that Heather didn't want them and telling her parents she didn't know how she would cope, all of which MAY have lead to a conversation about local fostering. We know that Sheila HATED going to the farm so it would have been the last thing she wanted.

Think that was the point April/Droosie, June and Nevill were trying to sort Sheila out and see more of the grandchildren. I believe they didn't have a high opinion of Colin Cafell. It's difficult really because Sheila wouldn't have wanted to live at the farm and would have seen J and N as bossy and controlling which they may or not have been. The question is what choice wS there in their eyes with Sheila obviously so ill and unable to cope, maybe insisting she could and saying is Colin has this woman then they won't have the twins, she won't let the new woman take her place etc. Can see in such a situation that may be June and Neville's way of solving things or at least trying to. Imo

[Jane]

Think that was the point April/Droosie, June and Nevill were trying to sort Sheila out and see more of the grandchildren. I believe they didn't have a high opinion of Colin Cafell. It's difficult really because Sheila wouldn't have wanted to live at the farm and would have seen J and N as bossy and controlling which they may or not have been. The question is what choice wS there in their eyes with Sheila obviously so ill and unable to cope, maybe insisting she could and saying is Colin has this woman then they won't have the twins, she won't let the new woman take her place etc. Can see in such a situation that may be June and Neville's way of solving things or at least trying to. Imo

It's possible that at some point Sheila was becoming agitated and they were attempting to calm her and look for a way round the problem. Sheila's possible agitation would probably have been a stronger sign that she was ill that would have been her silence because it was her agitation which caused Freddie to call them for help.

[nugnug]

so theres another thing said in court by the prosecution which was completely untrue.

[maggie]

It's possible that at some point Sheila was becoming agitated and they were attempting to calm her and look for a way round the problem. Sheila's possible agitation would probably have been a stronger sign that she was ill that would have been her silence because it was her agitation which caused Freddie to call them for help.

They were probably having a difficult discussion with her which would account for the passive Neville's irritation and shortness with BW.Jeremy said she was staring into space when he was there and not entering into the discussion but she may have been listening in her head, precursor to violent psychotic episode is often just such behaviour. Calm before the storm, who knows what she was hearing.

[Alias]

The twins had been in day foster care I gather but by that point I understand they were in the care of Colin Caffell so there would have been no need to discuss foster care. I suspect that's what those who believe Jeremy to be guilty are referring to.
I need to go back and read a bit more in depth but didn't Colin have residency for two boys? If so then the discussion of foster care becomes invalid...there would have been no need for it.

I don´t know for how long six-year-olds in England back in 1985 went to school - did they go to school at all? Colin, an aspiring artist with a new girlfriend might have found it hard to work and to tend to his new love with the boys around constantly?
Sounds plausible to me that some sort of arrangement would have been discussed. Especially if the twins HAD been in day foster care earlier. Everyone was HAPPY with it. Jeremy might have misunderstood the word foster care that night, and taken it as if the twins would be taken away from Sheila  - when in reality they were discussing day care for them. I don´t think he would have been particularly interested in the subject and only half listened.
I just don´t accept that it is so far fetched and something Jeremy made up, because it was something that had been done before.
That´s it.

[Alias]

Ah I see...yes that is possible. Be interesting to know what Colin Caffell thought afterwards...about what was possible and what was unlikely etc.

I have a lot of questions I would like to ask Colin. Seems that the boys had bruises and burns (or at least one) on them, which is horrible. Did he see those? I wonder what those poor boys went through with a very ill mother who thought they were the Devil´s children and might rape and kill her.

[Jane]

I don´t know for how long six-year-olds in England back in 1985 went to school - did they go to school at all? Colin, an aspiring artist with a new girlfriend might have found it hard to work and to tend to his new love with the boys around constantly?
Sounds plausible to me that some sort of arrangement would have been discussed. Especially if the twins HAD been in day foster care earlier. Everyone was HAPPY with it. Jeremy might have misunderstood the word foster care that night, and taken it as if the twins would be taken away from Sheila  - when in reality they were discussing day care for them. I don´t think he would have been particularly interested in the subject and only half listened.
I just don´t accept that it is so far fetched and something Jeremy made up, because it was something that had been done before.
That´s it.

Spot on, Alias Why the hell would any young man be remotely concerned about the care of his sister's children? Being cared for by others was part of how their lives had been so the idea was neither new nor shocking.

[maggie]

I have a lot of questions I would like to ask Colin. Seems that the boys had bruises and burns (or at least one) on them, which is horrible. Did he see those? I wonder what those poor boys went through with a very ill mother who thought they were the Devil´s children and might rape and kill her.

I know Alias they are dreadful thoughts. I imagine June and Neville would have been dreadfully worried about the situation and desperate to try to solve it whether they went about it the rightvway is a different question.

[maggie]

Spot on, Alias Why the hell would any young man be remotely concerned about the care of his sister's children? Being cared for by others was part of how their lives had been so the idea was neither new nor shocking.

I agree I doubt Jeremy was listening properly to the conversation, should think he was more interested in free food at that time and finishing the evenings jobs. Suzette Ford did say in her statement that Jeremy worried about the boys with Sheila and wished he could spend more time with them. He was apparently really worried about the the taxi incident and it was said Sheila punched one or both boys.  People object to these events but it's true that a psychotic woman could do such things but am not accusing Sheila of wilful abuse, if she did these things it would have been because of her illness and probably because she hadn't taken her meds. If she was bad at taking her meds that would be a symptom of paranoid schizophrenia which is very common not because she was a cruel child abuser. I am sure Sheila was a loving person but when her medication was out of balance or she believed she could control her illness with cannabis or cocaine things would go wrong.

[Alias]

I know Alias they are dreadful thoughts. I imagine June and Neville would have been dreadfully worried about the situation and desperate to try to solve it whether they went about it the rightvway is a different question.

It nags at me, I feel so bad for Nicholas and Daniel. I think they were let down badly.