A Killer Will Always Leave Something.

[Alias]

Maybe,Susan,,but he'll never ever get over losing his boys.

You have to feel for him. What a terrible loss! 

[Jane]

There have been some outstandingly insightful posts here today regarding Colin's belief that Sheila was capable of taking her own life and the fact that there's no repudiation of that fact  from him when he hears about the twins, but I can clearly see how much guilt it will lift from his shoulders to believe that Jeremy was responsible rather than having to live with that he had driven them to the place where they died so that he cold spend time with his lover................................but I wonder where Steve is. I'd be really interested to hear his take on this. Steve maintains that Colin didn't mean what he said.

[Steve_uk]

Thanks for that ,Tyler. The conversation according to Colin, whilst confirming that he was told first of Sheila's death first does nothing to dispel the notion that Colin was willing to accept that Sheila was responsible.
   When first told that Sheila was dead , according to Colin, he has leapt to the conclusion that Sheila was responsible without being told that she was.
   As there is no correction to this assumption on being told of the twins deaths then it is fair to assume that he still felt that "she finally did it".
   Colin , according to this conversation was told of Sheila's death and assumed that she had committed suicide without being told and it can be further inferred that he had a reasonable expectation that this was in some way expected.
    So even accepting that he was told of Sheila's death first it cannot be inferred that that he had any trouble accepting that Sheila was responsible and in fact the opposite is true.

I'm not sure what I'm being accused of here,but  if you read the extract  from #119 again there could be the interpretation which I put on the remark that Colin believed Sheila was responsible for her own death.

[Steve_uk]

There have been some outstandingly insightful posts here today regarding Colin's belief that Sheila was capable of taking her own life and the fact that there's no repudiation of that fact  from him when he hears about the twins, but I can clearly see how much guilt it will lift from his shoulders to believe that Jeremy was responsible rather than having to live with that he had driven them to the place where they died so that he cold spend time with his lover................................but I wonder where Steve is. I'd be really interested to hear his take on this. Steve maintains that Colin didn't mean what he said.

I don't know. I'm  prepared to accept that Sheila  had discussed suicide in his company,but not about taking the boys with her. We are yet again having the same allegations made  by people who have not read Dr.Hugh Cameron Ferguson's statements,or who are quoting them wrongly.

[Adam]

Colin was interviewed by ITN just after the verdict. He did not seem too upset about the juries decision.

[Jane]

I don't know. I'm  prepared to accept that Sheila  had discussed suicide in his company,but not about taking the boys with her. We are yet again having the same allegations made  by people who have not read Dr.Hugh Cameron Ferguson's statements,or who are quoting them wrongly.

Steve, I would have expected that YOU would have had the courage of your convictions. I am disappointed. We HAVE had this discussion previously, you and I and several others. WE pointed you towards what Colin said when he was first told what had happened and YOU said that he didn't mean those words, they were just the first thing that came into his head. What we DIDN'T say was that, on  learning that the boys were dead he didn't tell the police "She would NEVER have done that" The absence of those few words speak volumes. He COULD have exonerated her there and then. I have no idea to whom you refer when you say allegations have been made by those who have not read Dr F's statements, or, and SUCH arrogance from one with little knowledge of psychology, who are quoting them wrongly.

[Steve_uk]

Steve, I would have expected that YOU would have had the courage of your convictions. I am disappointed. We HAVE had this discussion previously, you and I and several others. WE pointed you towards what Colin said when he was first told what had happened and YOU said that he didn't mean those words, they were just the first thing that came into his head. What we DIDN'T say was that, on  learning that the boys were dead he didn't tell the police "She would NEVER have done that" The absence of those few words speak volumes. He COULD have exonerated her there and then. I have no idea to whom you refer when you say allegations have been made by those who have not read Dr F's statements, or, and SUCH arrogance from one with little knowledge of psychology, who are quoting them wrongly.

I was referring to alias's comment  #130 which is not untypical of several others I have read on this site and misrepresents the medical evidence available from Sheila's doctor. As for Colin's remarks I made an analogy with Jeremy's comments that the Raid Team had killed his family,when he was not in a position to know for sure if innocent how any of them died. The point about Colin's comment "she's finally done it" was it was made after being informed of her death only,so however the Jeremy supporters construe it it cannot possibly refer to her killing their children or her parents as well.

[Jane]

I was referring to alias's comment  #130 which is not untypical of several others I have read on this site and misrepresents the medical evidence available from Sheila's doctor. As for Colin's remarks I made an analogy with Jeremy's comments that the Raid Team had killed his family,when he was not in a position to know for sure if innocent how any of them died. The point about Colin's comment "she's finally done it" was it was made after being informed of her death only,so however the Jeremy supporters construe it it cannot possibly refer to her killing their children or her parents as well.

That would be the one in which she asks the question, was Colin aware of what she's told  Dr F about the the twins being the Devil's children and wanting to rape her, and how Dr F seemed to have dismissed those words, her fears, as being of no consequence. YOU, of all posters here, other than Adam, seem to have the LEAST knowledge of human psychology and how people MIGHT act/feel under certain circumstances, yet you have the EXTREME arrogance to believe you can tell us what they were thinking!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Steve, even I wouldn't presume to do that. The best I could hope for is to look at the circumstances and possibilities, and say what they MAY be thinking..........................Back to Colin's comment, that for WHAT ever reason, you DID once say he didn't mean. I WILL allow that never in his wildest nightmares could he have imagined that it would include his children and in laws -in part because they were so rarely together- but I reiterate that not once did he say ANYTHING to repudiate that it could have happened, and at this point, I'll risk a giant leap into the unknown and suggest that somewhere deep within him he'd always suspected that something similar COULD happen. MAYBE, like June and Nevill, he'd ostriched, and MAYBE, for just a split second, before grief and guilt took over, he felt a sense of relief that he wouldn't have to worry about it anymore.

[lookout]

I would think you'd have to have the constitution of an ox not to suffer in some way after losing children.
I,m a pretty strong person,mentally,,but I can say in all honesty that losing not one,but two children in such a way,would indeed have sent me running to the nearest clinic for help. To say I'd have been beside myself would have been an understatement.
This is where people are different in how they react after a tragedy,,and those who were/are quick to point a finger at Jeremys' reactions should stop and think.
I wouldn't expect everyone to react like I would do,because that's just me. Everyone's an individual and reacts in their own way.
However,,what I'm asking here is how wasn't Colin driven insane by what had happened ? As much was remarked on Jeremys' " behaviour " . That unsavoury remark of Colins' about Jeremy " looking at him and copying his actions during the funerals " was so uncalled for. Imagine being so intent watching others, after losing your children in such a way.. Why ? 

[maggie]

I would think you'd have to have the constitution of an ox not to suffer in some way after losing children.
I,m a pretty strong person,mentally,,but I can say in all honesty that losing not one,but two children in such a way,would indeed have sent me running to the nearest clinic for help. To say I'd have been beside myself would have been an understatement.
This is where people are different in how they react after a tragedy,,and those who were/are quick to point a finger at Jeremys' reactions should stop and think.
I wouldn't expect everyone to react like I would do,because that's just me. Everyone's an individual and reacts in their own way.
However,,what I'm asking here is how wasn't Colin driven insane by what had happened ? As much was remarked on Jeremys' " behaviour " . That unsavoury remark of Colins' about Jeremy " looking at him and copying his actions during the funerals " was so uncalled for. Imagine being so intent watching others, after losing your children in such a way.. Why ?

Don't know Lookout but it could have been shock.  Shock can make you cold and calm and slightly out of reality in my experience.

[Jane]

I would think you'd have to have the constitution of an ox not to suffer in some way after losing children.
I,m a pretty strong person,mentally,,but I can say in all honesty that losing not one,but two children in such a way,would indeed have sent me running to the nearest clinic for help. To say I'd have been beside myself would have been an understatement.
This is where people are different in how they react after a tragedy,,and those who were/are quick to point a finger at Jeremys' reactions should stop and think.
I wouldn't expect everyone to react like I would do,because that's just me. Everyone's an individual and reacts in their own way.
However,,what I'm asking here is how wasn't Colin driven insane by what had happened ? As much was remarked on Jeremys' " behaviour " . That unsavoury remark of Colins' about Jeremy " looking at him and copying his actions during the funerals " was so uncalled for. Imagine being so intent watching others, after losing your children in such a way.. Why ?

Lookout, suffering comes to people in different ways. Numbness, the inability to feel, to cry, the sensation of moving through a world one isn't part of and can't relate to, can go on for a long time. It can become SUCH a part of life that one simply accepts it as the norm. Contrary to what Steve seems to believe, there IS no book of prescribed ways of being/feeling for every occasion and it certainly isn't the case of one feeling/action for each event. Part of what often troubles us is the sneaky feeling of relief which creeps in where it isn't welcome and causes us to feel guilt on top of all the other emotions which may be going on.

[lookout]

Lookout, suffering comes to people in different ways. Numbness, the inability to feel, to cry, the sensation of moving through a world one isn't part of and can't relate to, can go on for a long time. It can become SUCH a part of life that one simply accepts it as the norm. Contrary to what Steve seems to believe, there IS no book of prescribed ways of being/feeling for every occasion and it certainly isn't the case of one feeling/action for each event. Part of what often troubles us is the sneaky feeling of relief which creeps in where it isn't welcome and causes us to feel guilt on top of all the other emotions which may be going on.

How right you are,April. After having looked after my husband for nearly 6 years,working,cooking for the family,etc etc,the sense of relief after he died was overwhelming after appointments here,there and everywhere,sleeping with one eye open each night,just in case,I was physically and mentally exhausted.
It was actually weeks,or even months later that everything hit me,,as I'd been " everyones' rock " over those years and had kept a stiff upper lip all round. I was actually in Australia at the time,6 months later,,but had to cut my holiday short as I'd intended to stay for Christmas,,but I thought I was going mad and returned back to the UK on the morning of Christmas Eve,,greatly upsetting my family in Oz,,but they had no understanding of how I'd felt. Delayed shock is horrendous I can tell you.
I had guilt because I'd gone away,,and while away,kept having vivid dreams that I was at home. I would never want to go through that again.

[Alias]

How right you are,April. After having looked after my husband for nearly 6 years,working,cooking for the family,etc etc,the sense of relief after he died was overwhelming after appointments here,there and everywhere,sleeping with one eye open each night,just in case,I was physically and mentally exhausted.
It was actually weeks,or even months later that everything hit me,,as I'd been " everyones' rock " over those years and had kept a stiff upper lip all round. I was actually in Australia at the time,6 months later,,but had to cut my holiday short as I'd intended to stay for Christmas,,but I thought I was going mad and returned back to the UK on the morning of Christmas Eve,,greatly upsetting my family in Oz,,but they had no understanding of how I'd felt. Delayed shock is horrendous I can tell you.
I had guilt because I'd gone away,,and while away,kept having vivid dreams that I was at home. I would never want to go through that again.

You shouldn´t have any guilt, to me it sounds like you did all you could, which was A LOT!!! You were simply stretched thin and simply NEEDED to go away for a while.
I think that there is too little focus on close family members of very ill patients. It is not an easy ride! I know this from my dear, dear sister´s battle with and loss to cancer.
Thank you for sharing this, Lookout, you have my deepest sympathy.

[Jane]

You shouldn´t have any guilt, to me it sounds like you did all you could, which was A LOT!!! You were simply stretched thin and simply NEEDED to go away for a while.
I think that there is too little focus on close family members of very ill patients. It is not an easy ride! I know this from my dear, dear sister´s battle with and loss to cancer.
Thank you for sharing this, Lookout, you have my deepest sympathy.

Alias, that horrid word "shouldn't" If ONLY we could eradicate it from existence. It condemns, it forbids, it causes there to be guilt with no reason. I have the feeling that both you and Lookout have emerged as stronger and more understanding women because of the distressing times you've experienced.

[maggie]

How right you are,April. After having looked after my husband for nearly 6 years,working,cooking for the family,etc etc,the sense of relief after he died was overwhelming after appointments here,there and everywhere,sleeping with one eye open each night,just in case,I was physically and mentally exhausted.
It was actually weeks,or even months later that everything hit me,,as I'd been " everyones' rock " over those years and had kept a stiff upper lip all round. I was actually in Australia at the time,6 months later,,but had to cut my holiday short as I'd intended to stay for Christmas,,but I thought I was going mad and returned back to the UK on the morning of Christmas Eve,,greatly upsetting my family in Oz,,but they had no understanding of how I'd felt. Delayed shock is horrendous I can tell you.
I had guilt because I'd gone away,,and while away,kept having vivid dreams that I was at home. I would never want to go through that again.

I have decided it's genetic, some people just don't try to cope, some cope for a while and some just don't seem to know how to stop coping and they are the ones who often suffer the most.  You just went on and on until you just couldn't cope with anything any more, bet you just wanted your own bed and everything familiar.  Totally understand that Lookout, what a nightmare you must have had. x