Lack of ammunition-handling evidence on Sheila's hands

[Bridget]

Thank you.  Well there's your answer in the main, regarding these swabs.  What happened in between these two dates, in relation to the direction of the case?

Clearly the direction of the case changed, which is probably what prompted them to resubmit the swabs. A positive result for GSR (even though possibly due to to contamination) would have assisted JB.

[lookout]

To be completely accurate, Eley subsonic hollowpoint .22 lr (lr means long rifle).  There was other .22lr ammunition at WHF belonging to Anthony Pargeter.  This was high velocity jacketed ammunition, i.e. copper clad over a lead core. This ammunition did not have any lead exposed and used a different lubrication method.  It is possible (although I accept there is no direct evidence of this) that some of the ammunition fired was from Pargeter's batch.  It is conceivable (although again I accept there is no direct evidence) that one of both of Pargeter's ammunition magazines was used.

Anthony Pargeter's rifle was the " other " rifle that was used in the murders. Different rifle,,,,not as long as the Anschutz,,and fired different bullets. Although the Anschutz was seen on Sheila's body,,,it wasn't the rifle that fired the fatal shot. Did we ever see the damage that was done to one of the rifles.? No.
Pargeters ammunition wouldn't have fitted the Anschutz and vice-versa. They both have different widths and lands.
No fingerprints were ever taken from any of the other firearms in the farmhouse. There isn't a single witness statement from any officer stating which weapons were found at the scene,,,where they were found,,,,or what condition they were in. None of the relatives adequately listed all of the firearms in their witness statements,,,and none of them testified at Jeremy's trial as to which weapons were found at the scene.   No photographs were ever released showing the numerous other firearms in situ.
When it gets to such a report where it does mention firearms that were found inside the farmhouse,,,,a large black space was left.!
So really,,,it's inconceivable that without any forensic tests,that the police could know------------as they claimed to know-----------that on the morning of the killings that the Anschutz,,,and the Anschutz alone,was the only weapon used in the murders.   

[ngb1066]

Anthony Pargeter's rifle was the " other " rifle that was used in the murders. Different rifle,,,,not as long as the Anschutz,,and fired different bullets. Although the Anschutz was seen on Sheila's body,,,it wasn't the rifle that fired the fatal shot. Did we ever see the damage that was done to one of the rifles.? No.
Pargeters ammunition wouldn't have fitted the Anschutz and vice-versa. They both have different widths and lands.No fingerprints were ever taken from any of the other firearms in the farmhouse. There isn't a single witness statement from any officer stating which weapons were found at the scene,,,where they were found,,,,or what condition they were in. None of the relatives adequately listed all of the firearms in their witness statements,,,and none of them testified at Jeremy's trial as to which weapons were found at the scene.   No photographs were ever released showing the numerous other firearms in situ.
When it gets to such a report where it does mention firearms that were found inside the farmhouse,,,,a large black space was left.!
So really,,,it's inconceivable that without any forensic tests,that the police could know------------as they claimed to know-----------that on the morning of the killings that the Anschutz,,,and the Anschutz alone,was the only weapon used in the murders.   

Pargeter's ammunition and Nevill's ammunition could be used in either rifle.  They were different makes but the same calibre, .22LR.

[bloggs and son]

Anthony Pargeter's rifle was the " other " rifle that was used in the murders. Different rifle,,,,not as long as the Anschutz,,and fired different bullets. Although the Anschutz was seen on Sheila's body,,,it wasn't the rifle that fired the fatal shot. Did we ever see the damage that was done to one of the rifles.? No.
Pargeters ammunition wouldn't have fitted the Anschutz and vice-versa. They both have different widths and lands.
No fingerprints were ever taken from any of the other firearms in the farmhouse. There isn't a single witness statement from any officer stating which weapons were found at the scene,,,where they were found,,,,or what condition they were in. None of the relatives adequately listed all of the firearms in their witness statements,,,and none of them testified at Jeremy's trial as to which weapons were found at the scene.   No photographs were ever released showing the numerous other firearms in situ.
When it gets to such a report where it does mention firearms that were found inside the farmhouse,,,,a large black space was left.!
So really,,,it's inconceivable that without any forensic tests,that the police could know------------as they claimed to know-----------that on the morning of the killings that the Anschutz,,,and the Anschutz alone,was the only weapon used in the murders.   

I think there was a post by someone not so long ago which stated that both the relative's list of weapons tallied with JB's list of weapons?

[Roch]

Clearly the direction of the case changed, which is probably what prompted them to resubmit the swabs. A positive result for GSR (even though possibly due to to contamination) would have assisted JB.

And as if by magic... the swabs come back negative.  They also just happen to have crossings out and alterations regarding their exhibit references, just like the silencer has.   That's quite a coincidence. 

[Bridget]

And as if by magic... the swabs come back negative.  They also just happen to have crossings out and alterations regarding their exhibit references, just like the silencer has.   That's quite a coincidence.

The swabs come as a kit. No doubt there will be some police protocol / guidance or other which dictates whether a kit should be assigned a single reference number, or a different reference number for each component part. If you could find such a protocol and the original referencing complied with it, but the amended referencing didn't, then you might be onto something.

[mike tesko]

And as if by magic... the swabs come back negative.  They also just happen to have crossings out and alterations regarding their exhibit references, just like the silencer has.   That's quite a coincidence.

Too much of a coincidence, there is clearly a pattern emerging which indicates evidence tampering...

[bloggs and son]

Too much of a coincidence, there is clearly a pattern emerging which indicates evidence tampering...

You just have to look at the Birmingham 6 fiasco to see that. Everybody is agreeing that it was a gross miscarriage of justice now. But then most people were saying exactly what they are saying now about Jeremy Bamber now. They had a terrible time of it trying to prove their innocence. That spawned the cration of the CCRC. But now the CCRC are doing exactly the same thing as what happened in those days.

[lookout]

There would be lack of ammunition handling evidence after Sheila's hands had been washed before they were swabbed.

[mike tesko]

I do not believe we have yet been told the truth about the actual sequence of events, involving the swabbing of the hands, and the taking of Sheila's fingerprints? This is because this was no ordinary investigation or police operation - it is not normal for the police to stage manage a crime scene and then for them to take photographs which they later rely on in / at court to suggest this was how the crime scene was found, and yet untouched before pictures were taken, or exhibits seized? You do not go to all the trouble of staging a crime scene of this nature and then follow the normal protocols, but what you may do is present a case and evidence that you did...

[Nuala]

And as if by magic... the swabs come back negative.  They also just happen to have crossings out and alterations regarding their exhibit references, just like the silencer has.   That's quite a coincidence.

Yes, it's a mighty BIG concidence, isn't it, Rocky?

[mike tesko]

Yes, it's a mighty BIG concidence, isn't it, Rocky?

The key feature being the timing of all these alterations, which I believe occurred and were manufactured around the time the silencer evidence was introduced for use to help prove Sheila could not have killed herself...

[Caroline R]

Original hand swab evidence was rejected at the lab' on 9th August 1985 (item 17), because of fears that it could be contaminated because they arrived at the lab' in the same packaging as other firearms connected to another investigation...

If the hand swab evidence was 'rejected' by the lab, where does the low lead traces evidence come from?

[Patti]

If the hand swab evidence was 'rejected' by the lab, where does the low lead traces evidence come from?

Hi Caroline. The swabs were rejected and re-submitted about 4 weeks later.  The lab rejected them, because they had arrived with weapons and run the risk of contamination.

When the swabs were re-submitted they test was more or less negative for lead.

However, I contest this, because Sheila was holding the rifle in pictures taken at the crime scene. She also had two shots fires close to her body, so to say there were no trace residue at all, other than one could pick up during the course of the day, is ludicrous.  So the swabs in my opinion are questionable...

[Caroline R]

Hi Caroline. The swabs were rejected and re-submitted about 4 weeks later. 

Now this is strange! If they were rejected because of possible contamination - why were they allowed four weeks later? Clearly they weren't any less contaminated? It's also strange that they were allowed for testing 'after' Ann Eaton's accusations about Jeremy.

There is something very wrong!