ANN Eaton Notes - CAE/1a (Sheila found on bed with Bible on chest)...

[jon]

Two things

Disclosure:
'We want everything' has not, does not, will never meet with a response.'
All evidence pertaining to 'silencer DB/1 - within the regulations can be checked for and disclosed.

Pii and all associated laws are actually in place to protect us - our identities and our right to privacy. Imagine if everyone had access to everything? Your nosey neighbour... Your boss... The drug dealer with heavy mates you phoned the police about, and because they found enough evidence they never needed to use your information? 
The bureaucracy is maddening, but it has a real purpose.

As I've said, you have to ask the right question of the file, and it will answer!
Responses from the 'mystery file' HAVE been given to JB.s legal team in this way. It is wrong to suggest otherwise.

Bible:
It has clearly been closed at some point, although I wouldn't dispute that could be the police.
Anyone who has regularly deal with documents or books will tell you they take an age to dry out. Blood dries on the surface first, so the underneath could still be semi-liquid.
Interesting idea about it being deliberately smeared with Sheila's/someone's blood.
Wasn't this partly rested/posed on her arm?

-------------------------------------------------

I take on board points made above, but this system is also open to abuse by the police and the cps, and the judiciary, in general...

I accept your point as well. But's it's a tough call. Because most of the time this system does serve most of us well.

The difficulty in saying solicitors should be given carte blanche is exactly the same - what if they are defending that drug dealer? Play golf with your nosey neighbour? Your boss?

The problem is, we all feel justified when we want to find out things, but that changes when we realise others could use it against us.

I have heard of employers who check every job applicants name against Facebook etc.

Imagine once everything's computerised if they were just able to ask the NHS/police etc to do a name/NINO search and give them everything that came up?

So if JB asked for pictures of Sheila's body on the bed and they had them they would have to release them ? By the way who do they have to protect by not releasing photo's or audio tape's of the night, not to mention note book's ?

[mb1]

Two things

Disclosure:
'We want everything' has not, does not, will never meet with a response.'
All evidence pertaining to 'silencer DB/1 - within the regulations can be checked for and disclosed.

Pii and all associated laws are actually in place to protect us - our identities and our right to privacy. Imagine if everyone had access to everything? Your nosey neighbour... Your boss... The drug dealer with heavy mates you phoned the police about, and because they found enough evidence they never needed to use your information? 
The bureaucracy is maddening, but it has a real purpose.

As I've said, you have to ask the right question of the file, and it will answer!
Responses from the 'mystery file' HAVE been given to JB.s legal team in this way. It is wrong to suggest otherwise.

Bible:
It has clearly been closed at some point, although I wouldn't dispute that could be the police.
Anyone who has regularly deal with documents or books will tell you they take an age to dry out. Blood dries on the surface first, so the underneath could still be semi-liquid.
Interesting idea about it being deliberately smeared with Sheila's/someone's blood.
Wasn't this partly rested/posed on her arm?

-------------------------------------------------

I take on board points made above, but this system is also open to abuse by the police and the cps, and the judiciary, in general...

I accept your point as well. But's it's a tough call. Because most of the time this system does serve most of us well.

The difficulty in saying solicitors should be given carte blanche is exactly the same - what if they are defending that drug dealer? Play golf with your nosey neighbour? Your boss?

The problem is, we all feel justified when we want to find out things, but that changes when we realise others could use it against us.

I have heard of employers who check every job applicants name against Facebook etc.

Imagine once everything's computerised if they were just able to ask the NHS/police etc to do a name/NINO search and give them everything that came up?

So if JB asked for pictures of Sheila's body on the bed and they had them they would have to release them ? By the way who do they have to protect by not releasing photo's or audio tape's of the night, not to mention note book's ?

I see absolutely NO reason why they could refuse to respond to the following:
All photographs detailing the bed in the main bedroom at WHF
or
Images processed from all negatives detailing the bed in the main bedroom at WHF (cost of processing images to be incurred by requestor)

So, have they been asked and told no further images?
Or haven't they asked yet?

[jon]

Two things

Disclosure:
'We want everything' has not, does not, will never meet with a response.'
All evidence pertaining to 'silencer DB/1 - within the regulations can be checked for and disclosed.

Pii and all associated laws are actually in place to protect us - our identities and our right to privacy. Imagine if everyone had access to everything? Your nosey neighbour... Your boss... The drug dealer with heavy mates you phoned the police about, and because they found enough evidence they never needed to use your information? 
The bureaucracy is maddening, but it has a real purpose.

As I've said, you have to ask the right question of the file, and it will answer!
Responses from the 'mystery file' HAVE been given to JB.s legal team in this way. It is wrong to suggest otherwise.

Bible:
It has clearly been closed at some point, although I wouldn't dispute that could be the police.
Anyone who has regularly deal with documents or books will tell you they take an age to dry out. Blood dries on the surface first, so the underneath could still be semi-liquid.
Interesting idea about it being deliberately smeared with Sheila's/someone's blood.
Wasn't this partly rested/posed on her arm?

-------------------------------------------------

I take on board points made above, but this system is also open to abuse by the police and the cps, and the judiciary, in general...

I accept your point as well. But's it's a tough call. Because most of the time this system does serve most of us well.

The difficulty in saying solicitors should be given carte blanche is exactly the same - what if they are defending that drug dealer? Play golf with your nosey neighbour? Your boss?

The problem is, we all feel justified when we want to find out things, but that changes when we realise others could use it against us.

I have heard of employers who check every job applicants name against Facebook etc.

Imagine once everything's computerised if they were just able to ask the NHS/police etc to do a name/NINO search and give them everything that came up?

So if JB asked for pictures of Sheila's body on the bed and they had them they would have to release them ? By the way who do they have to protect by not releasing photo's or audio tape's of the night, not to mention note book's ?

I see absolutely NO reason why they could refuse to respond to the following:
All photographs detailing the bed in the main bedroom at WHF
or
Images processed from all negatives detailing the bed in the main bedroom at WHF (cost of processing images to be incurred by requestor)

So, have they been asked and told no further images?
Or haven't they asked yet?

Even if they are in the first file ?

[mb1]

Two things

Disclosure:
'We want everything' has not, does not, will never meet with a response.'
All evidence pertaining to 'silencer DB/1 - within the regulations can be checked for and disclosed.

Pii and all associated laws are actually in place to protect us - our identities and our right to privacy. Imagine if everyone had access to everything? Your nosey neighbour... Your boss... The drug dealer with heavy mates you phoned the police about, and because they found enough evidence they never needed to use your information? 
The bureaucracy is maddening, but it has a real purpose.

As I've said, you have to ask the right question of the file, and it will answer!
Responses from the 'mystery file' HAVE been given to JB.s legal team in this way. It is wrong to suggest otherwise.

Bible:
It has clearly been closed at some point, although I wouldn't dispute that could be the police.
Anyone who has regularly deal with documents or books will tell you they take an age to dry out. Blood dries on the surface first, so the underneath could still be semi-liquid.
Interesting idea about it being deliberately smeared with Sheila's/someone's blood.
Wasn't this partly rested/posed on her arm?

-------------------------------------------------

I take on board points made above, but this system is also open to abuse by the police and the cps, and the judiciary, in general...

I accept your point as well. But's it's a tough call. Because most of the time this system does serve most of us well.

The difficulty in saying solicitors should be given carte blanche is exactly the same - what if they are defending that drug dealer? Play golf with your nosey neighbour? Your boss?

The problem is, we all feel justified when we want to find out things, but that changes when we realise others could use it against us.

I have heard of employers who check every job applicants name against Facebook etc.

Imagine once everything's computerised if they were just able to ask the NHS/police etc to do a name/NINO search and give them everything that came up?

So if JB asked for pictures of Sheila's body on the bed and they had them they would have to release them ? By the way who do they have to protect by not releasing photo's or audio tape's of the night, not to mention note book's ?

I see absolutely NO reason why they could refuse to respond to the following:
All photographs detailing the bed in the main bedroom at WHF
or
Images processed from all negatives detailing the bed in the main bedroom at WHF (cost of processing images to be incurred by requestor)

So, have they been asked and told no further images?
Or haven't they asked yet?

Even if they are in the first file ?

Correct. You address the question to the specific file.

This file has NOT been sealed for security purposes.

You or I can't ask out of curiosity. It would disclose private information about the Bamber family.
JB is a ember of that family and has been tried for their murders. His legal representative can ask on his behalf.

So, have they asked?

[jon]

Two things

Disclosure:
'We want everything' has not, does not, will never meet with a response.'
All evidence pertaining to 'silencer DB/1 - within the regulations can be checked for and disclosed.

Pii and all associated laws are actually in place to protect us - our identities and our right to privacy. Imagine if everyone had access to everything? Your nosey neighbour... Your boss... The drug dealer with heavy mates you phoned the police about, and because they found enough evidence they never needed to use your information? 
The bureaucracy is maddening, but it has a real purpose.

As I've said, you have to ask the right question of the file, and it will answer!
Responses from the 'mystery file' HAVE been given to JB.s legal team in this way. It is wrong to suggest otherwise.

Bible:
It has clearly been closed at some point, although I wouldn't dispute that could be the police.
Anyone who has regularly deal with documents or books will tell you they take an age to dry out. Blood dries on the surface first, so the underneath could still be semi-liquid.
Interesting idea about it being deliberately smeared with Sheila's/someone's blood.
Wasn't this partly rested/posed on her arm?

-------------------------------------------------

I take on board points made above, but this system is also open to abuse by the police and the cps, and the judiciary, in general...

I accept your point as well. But's it's a tough call. Because most of the time this system does serve most of us well.

The difficulty in saying solicitors should be given carte blanche is exactly the same - what if they are defending that drug dealer? Play golf with your nosey neighbour? Your boss?

The problem is, we all feel justified when we want to find out things, but that changes when we realise others could use it against us.

I have heard of employers who check every job applicants name against Facebook etc.

Imagine once everything's computerised if they were just able to ask the NHS/police etc to do a name/NINO search and give them everything that came up?

So if JB asked for pictures of Sheila's body on the bed and they had them they would have to release them ? By the way who do they have to protect by not releasing photo's or audio tape's of the night, not to mention note book's ?

I see absolutely NO reason why they could refuse to respond to the following:
All photographs detailing the bed in the main bedroom at WHF
or
Images processed from all negatives detailing the bed in the main bedroom at WHF (cost of processing images to be incurred by requestor)

So, have they been asked and told no further images?
Or haven't they asked yet?

Even if they are in the first file ?

Correct. You address the question to the specific file.

This file has NOT been sealed for security purposes.

You or I can't ask out of curiosity. It would disclose private information about the Bamber family.
JB is a ember of that family and has been tried for their murders. His legal representative can ask on his behalf.

So, have they asked?

You seem to know how these things work , what do you think ? They must have surely ? Is there a way they could ignore the request knowing it would point to JB being innocent in your opinion ?

[mb1]

Two things

Disclosure:
'We want everything' has not, does not, will never meet with a response.'
All evidence pertaining to 'silencer DB/1 - within the regulations can be checked for and disclosed.

Pii and all associated laws are actually in place to protect us - our identities and our right to privacy. Imagine if everyone had access to everything? Your nosey neighbour... Your boss... The drug dealer with heavy mates you phoned the police about, and because they found enough evidence they never needed to use your information? 
The bureaucracy is maddening, but it has a real purpose.

As I've said, you have to ask the right question of the file, and it will answer!
Responses from the 'mystery file' HAVE been given to JB.s legal team in this way. It is wrong to suggest otherwise.

Bible:
It has clearly been closed at some point, although I wouldn't dispute that could be the police.
Anyone who has regularly deal with documents or books will tell you they take an age to dry out. Blood dries on the surface first, so the underneath could still be semi-liquid.
Interesting idea about it being deliberately smeared with Sheila's/someone's blood.
Wasn't this partly rested/posed on her arm?

-------------------------------------------------

I take on board points made above, but this system is also open to abuse by the police and the cps, and the judiciary, in general...

I accept your point as well. But's it's a tough call. Because most of the time this system does serve most of us well.

The difficulty in saying solicitors should be given carte blanche is exactly the same - what if they are defending that drug dealer? Play golf with your nosey neighbour? Your boss?

The problem is, we all feel justified when we want to find out things, but that changes when we realise others could use it against us.

I have heard of employers who check every job applicants name against Facebook etc.

Imagine once everything's computerised if they were just able to ask the NHS/police etc to do a name/NINO search and give them everything that came up?

So if JB asked for pictures of Sheila's body on the bed and they had them they would have to release them ? By the way who do they have to protect by not releasing photo's or audio tape's of the night, not to mention note book's ?

I see absolutely NO reason why they could refuse to respond to the following:
All photographs detailing the bed in the main bedroom at WHF
or
Images processed from all negatives detailing the bed in the main bedroom at WHF (cost of processing images to be incurred by requestor)

So, have they been asked and told no further images?
Or haven't they asked yet?

Even if they are in the first file ?

Correct. You address the question to the specific file.

This file has NOT been sealed for security purposes.

You or I can't ask out of curiosity. It would disclose private information about the Bamber family.
JB is a ember of that family and has been tried for their murders. His legal representative can ask on his behalf.

So, have they asked?

You seem to know how these things work , what do you think ? They must have surely ? Is there a way they could ignore the request knowing it would point to JB being innocent in your opinion ?

Honestly?

I think they have asked, don't like the answer, so have decided it's a lie.
or
Haven't asked because they know there isn't anything there, but conjecture keeps 'theories' alive.

[joolz1975]

Two things

Disclosure:
'We want everything' has not, does not, will never meet with a response.'
All evidence pertaining to 'silencer DB/1 - within the regulations can be checked for and disclosed.

Pii and all associated laws are actually in place to protect us - our identities and our right to privacy. Imagine if everyone had access to everything? Your nosey neighbour... Your boss... The drug dealer with heavy mates you phoned the police about, and because they found enough evidence they never needed to use your information? 
The bureaucracy is maddening, but it has a real purpose.

As I've said, you have to ask the right question of the file, and it will answer!
Responses from the 'mystery file' HAVE been given to JB.s legal team in this way. It is wrong to suggest otherwise.

Bible:
It has clearly been closed at some point, although I wouldn't dispute that could be the police.
Anyone who has regularly deal with documents or books will tell you they take an age to dry out. Blood dries on the surface first, so the underneath could still be semi-liquid.
Interesting idea about it being deliberately smeared with Sheila's/someone's blood.
Wasn't this partly rested/posed on her arm?

-------------------------------------------------

I take on board points made above, but this system is also open to abuse by the police and the cps, and the judiciary, in general...

I accept your point as well. But's it's a tough call. Because most of the time this system does serve most of us well.

The difficulty in saying solicitors should be given carte blanche is exactly the same - what if they are defending that drug dealer? Play golf with your nosey neighbour? Your boss?

The problem is, we all feel justified when we want to find out things, but that changes when we realise others could use it against us.

I have heard of employers who check every job applicants name against Facebook etc.

Imagine once everything's computerised if they were just able to ask the NHS/police etc to do a name/NINO search and give them everything that came up?

So if JB asked for pictures of Sheila's body on the bed and they had them they would have to release them ? By the way who do they have to protect by not releasing photo's or audio tape's of the night, not to mention note book's ?

I see absolutely NO reason why they could refuse to respond to the following:
All photographs detailing the bed in the main bedroom at WHF
or
Images processed from all negatives detailing the bed in the main bedroom at WHF (cost of processing images to be incurred by requestor)

So, have they been asked and told no further images?
Or haven't they asked yet?

Even if they are in the first file ?

Correct. You address the question to the specific file.

This file has NOT been sealed for security purposes.

You or I can't ask out of curiosity. It would disclose private information about the Bamber family.
JB is a ember of that family and has been tried for their murders. His legal representative can ask on his behalf.

So, have they asked?

You seem to know how these things work , what do you think ? They must have surely ? Is there a way they could ignore the request knowing it would point to JB being innocent in your opinion ?

Honestly?

I think they have asked, don't like the answer, so have decided it's a lie.
or
Haven't asked because they know there isn't anything there, but conjecture keeps 'theories' alive.

I like you MB1 you speak sense !!

[jon]

Two things

Disclosure:
'We want everything' has not, does not, will never meet with a response.'
All evidence pertaining to 'silencer DB/1 - within the regulations can be checked for and disclosed.

Pii and all associated laws are actually in place to protect us - our identities and our right to privacy. Imagine if everyone had access to everything? Your nosey neighbour... Your boss... The drug dealer with heavy mates you phoned the police about, and because they found enough evidence they never needed to use your information? 
The bureaucracy is maddening, but it has a real purpose.

As I've said, you have to ask the right question of the file, and it will answer!
Responses from the 'mystery file' HAVE been given to JB.s legal team in this way. It is wrong to suggest otherwise.

Bible:
It has clearly been closed at some point, although I wouldn't dispute that could be the police.
Anyone who has regularly deal with documents or books will tell you they take an age to dry out. Blood dries on the surface first, so the underneath could still be semi-liquid.
Interesting idea about it being deliberately smeared with Sheila's/someone's blood.
Wasn't this partly rested/posed on her arm?

-------------------------------------------------

I take on board points made above, but this system is also open to abuse by the police and the cps, and the judiciary, in general...

I accept your point as well. But's it's a tough call. Because most of the time this system does serve most of us well.

The difficulty in saying solicitors should be given carte blanche is exactly the same - what if they are defending that drug dealer? Play golf with your nosey neighbour? Your boss?

The problem is, we all feel justified when we want to find out things, but that changes when we realise others could use it against us.

I have heard of employers who check every job applicants name against Facebook etc.

Imagine once everything's computerised if they were just able to ask the NHS/police etc to do a name/NINO search and give them everything that came up?

So if JB asked for pictures of Sheila's body on the bed and they had them they would have to release them ? By the way who do they have to protect by not releasing photo's or audio tape's of the night, not to mention note book's ?

I see absolutely NO reason why they could refuse to respond to the following:
All photographs detailing the bed in the main bedroom at WHF
or
Images processed from all negatives detailing the bed in the main bedroom at WHF (cost of processing images to be incurred by requestor)

So, have they been asked and told no further images?
Or haven't they asked yet?

Even if they are in the first file ?

Correct. You address the question to the specific file.

This file has NOT been sealed for security purposes.

You or I can't ask out of curiosity. It would disclose private information about the Bamber family.
JB is a ember of that family and has been tried for their murders. His legal representative can ask on his behalf.

So, have they asked?

You seem to know how these things work , what do you think ? They must have surely ? Is there a way they could ignore the request knowing it would point to JB being innocent in your opinion ?

Honestly?

I think they have asked, don't like the answer, so have decided it's a lie.
or
Haven't asked because they know there isn't anything there, but conjecture keeps 'theories' alive.

I like you MB1 you speak sense !!

If they asked and didnt like the answer its simple for EP to come out and say so , are you happy MB for them to withhold anything , notebooks , audio tapes , photos or documents that dont compromise anyone's personal address or other personal details ? 

[Hartley]

If they asked and didnt like the answer its simple for EP to come out and say so , are you happy MB for them to withhold anything , notebooks , audio tapes , photos or documents that dont compromise anyone's personal address or other personal details ?

I suppose if that were the case, then Essex Police could release that to the public, but why would they, there's no incentive for them to do so.

I'm not so sure this withheld evidence claim is as big a deal as Mike is making it out to be, it's contents are unknown so it could either help JB's cause or hinder it, or more than likely do neither.

[bb2010]

If they asked and didnt like the answer its simple for EP to come out and say so , are you happy MB for them to withhold anything , notebooks , audio tapes , photos or documents that dont compromise anyone's personal address or other personal details ?

I suppose if that were the case, then Essex Police could release that to the public, but why would they, there's no incentive for them to do so.

I'm not so sure this withheld evidence claim is as big a deal as Mike is making it out to be, it's contents are unknown so it could either help JB's cause or hinder it, or more than likely do neither.

Yes, good point. Elsewhere Mike says he has 50,000 copy documents, of which say the best 100 or so documents are used to illustrate his views and are shared with us. (100 is a guess obviously). So I wonder what the other 49,000 documents illustrate.

And no, I don't want them all posted. 

[joolz1975]

If they asked and didnt like the answer its simple for EP to come out and say so , are you happy MB for them to withhold anything , notebooks , audio tapes , photos or documents that dont compromise anyone's personal address or other personal details ?

I suppose if that were the case, then Essex Police could release that to the public, but why would they, there's no incentive for them to do so.

I'm not so sure this withheld evidence claim is as big a deal as Mike is making it out to be, it's contents are unknown so it could either help JB's cause or hinder it, or more than likely do neither.

Yes, good point. Elsewhere Mike says he has 50,000 copy documents, of which say the best 100 or so documents are used to illustrate his views and are shared with us. (100 is a guess obviously). So I wonder what the other 49,000 documents illustrate.

And no, I don't want them all posted. 

The other 49,900 could just simply point to the fact hes guilty! i think until ALL documents and evidence is released its impossible for anyone to form a proper opinion.

I read somewhere that JB and his legal team where holding evidence back incase they needed to appeal further in future, that just seems absurd to me.

[bb2010]

I read somewhere that JB and his legal team where holding evidence back incase they needed to appeal further in future, that just seems absurd to me.

I agree: why wait? why hold back?

[Alex]

I read somewhere that JB and his legal team where holding evidence back incase they needed to appeal further in future, that just seems absurd to me.

I agree: why wait? why hold back?

Well, for one, the CCRC would have to take even longer reviewing the submissions.  The other reason for not presenting the CCRC with everything, in my opinion, could be because should they not respond favourably to your submissions, they might respond more favourably at a later date under different circumstances, considering only that evidence, perhaps involving different case workers etc. who perhaps view the case differently for some non-specific other reason . . .  Plus, in July (or a bit before) the CCRC would no longer receive submissions from him).

[VORTEX]

If there is nothing to hide then disclose all the information - simple. Revealing all the undisclosed information may help neither side but it would go some way to being more transparent in the name of justice. The resistance to it makes everyone feel there is something to hide - how many national newspapers have been quoting the fact of the undisclosed documents and photos? It is actually pivotal in an individuals decision to want to support an appeal. I have explained the case to a number of people and most of them can't make up their mind either way until you mention the undisclosed documents and photos - it's that important! The general public think it's outrageous when explained to them. It would go some way to settling this matter once and for all. I can not  think of anything that could be in there that needs to held under PII rules to protect the public - can anyone else? 

[mike tesko]

If there is nothing to hide then disclose all the information - simple. Revealing all the undisclosed information may help neither side but it would go some way to being more transparent in the name of justice. The resistance to it makes everyone feel there is something to hide - how many national newspapers have been quoting the fact of the undisclosed documents and photos? It is actually pivotal in an individuals decision to want to support an appeal. I have explained the case to a number of people and most of them can't make up their mind either way until you mention the undisclosed documents and photos - it's that important! The general public think it's outrageous when explained to them. It would go some way to settling this matter once and for all. I can not  think of anything that could be in there that needs to held under PII rules to protect the public - can anyone else?

---------------------------

Could be information about informants, or to do with national Security...