Court Deceived over claim that Sheila would not have been able to shoot herself

[mike tesko]

It's not really relevant how tall a model is anyway. What's relevant is the length of Sheila's arms.

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Different postures could have been adopted by anyone wanting to shoot themselves with thee Bamber rifle fitted with the silencer - length of arm was not, and is not as issue in this matter...

Experiments performed at Birdwell armory in 2003, establish this beyond reasonable doubt ...

Experiments in 2003 were videoed and photographed...

[Kaldin]

It's not really relevant how tall a model is anyway. What's relevant is the length of Sheila's arms.

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Different postures could have been adopted by anyone wanting to shoot themselves with thee Bamber rifle fitted with the silencer - length of arm was not, and is not as issue in this matter...

Experiments performed at Birdwell armory in 2003, establish this beyond reasonable doubt ...

Experiments in 2003 were videoed and photographed...

Of course length of arm is an issue.  Nobody would bother to use their toe if they could reach because they had long arms. If they couldn't reach they would just take the silencer off rather than mess about using their toe.

I don't see the relevance anyway. If Sheila shot herself with the silencer on, she couldn't have put it in the cupboard could she? It would have been found next to her body.

[mike tesko]

It's not really relevant how tall a model is anyway. What's relevant is the length of Sheila's arms.

--------------------------------------

Different postures could have been adopted by anyone wanting to shoot themselves with thee Bamber rifle fitted with the silencer - length of arm was not, and is not as issue in this matter...

Experiments performed at Birdwell armory in 2003, establish this beyond reasonable doubt ...

Experiments in 2003 were videoed and photographed...

Of course length of arm is an issue.  Nobody would bother to use their toe if they could reach because they had long arms. If they couldn't reach they would just take the silencer off rather than mess about using their toe.

I don't see the relevance anyway. If Sheila shot herself with the silencer on, she couldn't have put it in the cupboard could she? It would have been found next to her body.

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But thats the whole point, in my opinion, the silencer was not used - but the experiments performed at Birdwell in 2003, show conclusively that Sheila or anyone else could have fired the gun by use of their fingers. There is a video clip which shows this to have been the case where the trigger could have been reached with the silencer fitted to the guns barrel...

Nobody is saying it was - only that it could have been done...

Have you not seen the video clip I am talking about (on Sleuthing for justice)?

[Kaldin]

It's not really relevant how tall a model is anyway. What's relevant is the length of Sheila's arms.

--------------------------------------

Different postures could have been adopted by anyone wanting to shoot themselves with thee Bamber rifle fitted with the silencer - length of arm was not, and is not as issue in this matter...

Experiments performed at Birdwell armory in 2003, establish this beyond reasonable doubt ...

Experiments in 2003 were videoed and photographed...

Of course length of arm is an issue.  Nobody would bother to use their toe if they could reach because they had long arms. If they couldn't reach they would just take the silencer off rather than mess about using their toe.

I don't see the relevance anyway. If Sheila shot herself with the silencer on, she couldn't have put it in the cupboard could she? It would have been found next to her body.

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But thats the whole point, in my opinion, the silencer was not used - but the experiments performed at Birdwell in 2003, show conclusively that Sheila or anyone else could have fired the gun by use of their fingers. There is a video clip which shows this to have been the case where the trigger could have been reached with the silencer fitted to the guns barrel...

Nobody is saying it was - only that it could have been done...

Have you not seen the video clip I am talking about (on Sleuthing for justice)?

I haven't seen that video - I'll have a look for it ta.

Even if the prosecution misled the jury on that issue, there's still the problem of the silencer being used and put away. There's still the problem that it wasn't found near the gun.

[mike tesko]

It's not really relevant how tall a model is anyway. What's relevant is the length of Sheila's arms.

--------------------------------------

Different postures could have been adopted by anyone wanting to shoot themselves with thee Bamber rifle fitted with the silencer - length of arm was not, and is not as issue in this matter...

Experiments performed at Birdwell armory in 2003, establish this beyond reasonable doubt ...

Experiments in 2003 were videoed and photographed...

Of course length of arm is an issue.  Nobody would bother to use their toe if they could reach because they had long arms. If they couldn't reach they would just take the silencer off rather than mess about using their toe.

I don't see the relevance anyway. If Sheila shot herself with the silencer on, she couldn't have put it in the cupboard could she? It would have been found next to her body.

-----------------------------------

But thats the whole point, in my opinion, the silencer was not used - but the experiments performed at Birdwell in 2003, show conclusively that Sheila or anyone else could have fired the gun by use of their fingers. There is a video clip which shows this to have been the case where the trigger could have been reached with the silencer fitted to the guns barrel...

Nobody is saying it was - only that it could have been done...

Have you not seen the video clip I am talking about (on Sleuthing for justice)?

I haven't seen that video - I'll have a look for it ta.

Even if the prosecution misled the jury on that issue, there's still the problem of the silencer being used and put away. There's still the problem that it wasn't found near the gun.

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If the silencer was used, I agree - do you honestly think that I have not thought about that during the past twenty years I have been looking into this case?

[Kaldin]

If the silencer was used, I agree - do you honestly think that I have not thought about that during the past twenty years I have been looking into this case?

I do think it's important to establish if Sheila could reach with the silencer on because if she could have, there would have been no reason for Jeremy to have removed it. I would like to know if the prosecution knew for sure that she couldn't reach or if they just assumed she couldn't based on her height. Like I said, arm length matters.

Likewise, if she shot herself then why did she remove it if she could reach with it on? Well I've suggested one possibility - I've mentioned it twice now.

[mike tesko]

If the silencer was used, I agree - do you honestly think that I have not thought about that during the past twenty years I have been looking into this case?

I do think it's important to establish if Sheila could reach with the silencer on because if she could have, there would have been no reason for Jeremy to have removed it. I would like to know if the prosecution knew for sure that she couldn't reach or if they just assumed she couldn't based on her height. Like I said, arm length matters.

Likewise, if she shot herself then why did she remove it if she could reach with it on? Well I've suggested one possibility - I've mentioned it twice now.

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Look at the video clip on "Sleuthing" an come back to me once you have viewed it, and had time to reflect on this point...

[Kaldin]

If the silencer was used, I agree - do you honestly think that I have not thought about that during the past twenty years I have been looking into this case?

I do think it's important to establish if Sheila could reach with the silencer on because if she could have, there would have been no reason for Jeremy to have removed it. I would like to know if the prosecution knew for sure that she couldn't reach or if they just assumed she couldn't based on her height. Like I said, arm length matters.

Likewise, if she shot herself then why did she remove it if she could reach with it on? Well I've suggested one possibility - I've mentioned it twice now.

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Look at the video clip on "Sleuthing" an come back to me once you have viewed it, and had time to reflect on this point...

Can you post a link to where that video is on SFJ? Ta.

[mb1]

It's not really relevant how tall a model is anyway. What's relevant is the length of Sheila's arms.

For virtually every human being on the planet, their arm span equals their height, and it's something like elbow to wrist (I'll check) equals shoulder breadth, therefore you can work out the likely length of their arm from their height.

[Kaldin]

It's not really relevant how tall a model is anyway. What's relevant is the length of Sheila's arms.

For virtually every human being on the planet, their arm span equals their height, and it's something like elbow to wrist (I'll check) equals shoulder breadth, therefore you can work out the likely length of their arm from their height.

I don't agree. I know people who have long arms but aren't very tall. I know tall people who don't have very long arms. If they didn't specifically measure Sheila's arms or test whether Sheila could have pressed that trigger with the silencer on, any assumptions about height are meaningless.

[JW]

A person's foot is supposed to be the same measurement as the forearm if that's any help.

[mike tesko]

Model, Amy Holland, was of a similar height and build to Sheila Caffell...

Amy may even have had shorter arms, than Sheila did...

[Kaldin]

Model, Amy Holland, was of a similar height and build to Sheila Caffell...

It doesn't matter. What matters is the length of Sheila's arms.

Never mind - I'm not going to keep saying that. You can all think what you like about it.

[mike tesko]

Model, Amy Holland, was of a similar height and build to Sheila Caffell...

It doesn't matter. What matters is the length of Sheila's arms.

Never mind - I'm not going to keep saying that. You can all think what you like about it.

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It was alright for the prosecution to call one of the Lab' assistants, during the trial, to demonstrate how she was unable to reach the trigger of the gun with the silencer fitted, by claiming she was of a similar height and build, but you say in May's case, it is not acceptable, or you suggest it doesn't make any difference...

Video clip taken during 2003m experiments proves beyond doubt that Amy could reach and activate the trigger, contrary to the evidence relied upon at the time of the trial by the prosecution...

Defense did not take issue with this feature during the trial, because they did not feel that the silencer was fitted to the gun at the time Sheila was shot and killed in the bedroom...

I agree with that judgement - silencer was not fitted to the gun which fired the fatal bullet that killed Sheila in the bedroom. Silencer evidence is dodgy...

[Kaldin]

Model, Amy Holland, was of a similar height and build to Sheila Caffell...

It doesn't matter. What matters is the length of Sheila's arms.

Never mind - I'm not going to keep saying that. You can all think what you like about it.

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It was alright for the prosecution to call one of the Lab' assistants, during the trial, to demonstrate how she was unable to reach the trigger of the gun with the silencer fitted, by claiming she was iof a similar height and build, but you say in May's case, it is not acceptable, or you suggest it doesn't make any difference...

Video clip taken during 2003m experiments proves beyond doubt that Amy could reach and activate the trigger, contrary to the evidence relied upon at the time of the trial by the prosecution...

Defense did not take issue with this feature during the trial, because they did not feel that the silencer was fitted to the gun at the time Sheila was shot and killed in the bedroom...

I agree with that judgement - silencer was not fitted to the gun which fire the fatal bullet that killed Sheila in the bedroom. Silencer evidence is dodgy...

What I'm saying is that unless they conducted tests specifically on Sheila, it's not possible to say one way or another if she could have reached that trigger with the silencer on.

Why on earth did the defence claim that the silencer was not on the gun when Sheila was shot? They must have known the results of the blood tests which the prosecution claimed showed that Sheila's blood was in the silencer. Those tests may have been erroneous but the evidence was very strong at the time. I think they should have made more of the issue.