Occupants of CA07, relayed information to control room, from raid team...

[Bridget]

From the kitchen side of the house Bridget....so therefore it was impossible see the main bedroom from there....do you agree? 

If he means 30 yards West, yes, but he doesn't say the direction.

[Patti]

If he means 30 yards West, yes, but he doesn't say the direction.

I'm right Bridget and you wont except it, that's bad sportmanship......for no matter which corner of the barn she was at, she was facing the kitchen side, she had no view of the main bedroom window...and she was back a HQ for 9:30 well before the gun was put in view of the main bedroom. 

[vidvic]

Aren't you both agreeing, in different ways, that it's unlikely she saw a rifle?

[Patti]

Aren't you both agreeing, in different ways, that it's unlikely she saw a rifle?

Hi  Vic, but it is very likely she did...it was daylight...Anyway, I have to go. I'll be back, got appt at the docs..

[vidvic]

Hi  Vic, but it is very likely she did...it was daylight...Anyway, I have to go. I'll be back, got appt at the docs..

Good luck.

[Bridget]

Aren't you both agreeing, in different ways, that it's unlikely she saw a rifle?

Well I am..

[NewChilledOutHartley]

I'm right Bridget and you wont except it, that's bad sportmanship......for no matter which corner of the barn she was at, she was facing the kitchen side, she had no view of the main bedroom window...and she was back a HQ for 9:30 well before the gun was put in view of the main bedroom. 

Patti, I'll admit that you make a compelling argument, but I'm not really interested in who is right and who is wrong, there isn't a score card. You've made a good contribution to this topic.

You have changed my mind a little, in regards to seeing the master bedroom, talking it through, as we have, it makes sense to a degree. However (there is always a however) the remainder of my original post stands in my view. (As copied below).

Hi Patti,

As alluded to above, in the first instance, I do not know that her statement was withheld, however it certainly wasn't used by the prosecution as part of their case, so they ultimately didn't call Jeapes as a witness.
Could the defence have called Jeapes as a witness if they did have access to her statement, well yes, but unless she stated something which was not contained in her statement, then I'm not sure what help to the defence she would have been, it would be a strange situation, but the prosecution could then cross examine her and reduce any damage to their case that she may have caused.

If she clearly saw a gun in the window (which is very contentious), then in addition to it being in that same location when the firearms entered the house, you would expect to see reference to her informing her superiors of her sighting in the logs, due to the massive implications it would have on a raid team entering the premises. It may also need some explaining why, if it was a rifle, why she didn't see it move.

[Bridget]

I'm right Bridget and you wont except it, that's bad sportmanship......for no matter which corner of the barn she was at, she was facing the kitchen side, she had no view of the main bedroom window...and she was back a HQ for 9:30 well before the gun was put in view of the main bedroom. 

Awww I'm not really disagreeing, I think it was the box room too.

[mike tesko]

Awww I'm not really disagreeing, I think it was the box room too.

Its not the box room, but on the off chance it was I want to know about the rifle which was leaning against it - since according to the police and the relatives, there were only two rifles present or found at the scene, let me remind you of which rifles these were (1) the .22 semi-automatic anshulz rifle, and (2) the .22 BSA air rifle. Now depending upon what you choose to believe, the .22 semi-automatic rifle was found upon Sheila's body in the bedroom, or off it, or found elsewhere in the same bedroom, and the .22 air rifle was found on the spiral staircase which led from the kktchen to the jupstyioars landing...

Now...

About this other rifle leaning up against whichevber window you want to call it, can you please identify it for me?

[mike tesko]

Identify this other rifle, and help to solve the case...

[HMEssex]

Its not the box room, but on the off chance it was I want to know about the rifle which was leaning against it - since according to the police and the relatives, there were only two rifles present or found at the scene, let me remind you of which rifles these were (1) the .22 semi-automatic anshulz rifle, and (2) the .22 BSA air rifle. Now depending upon what you choose to believe, the .22 semi-automatic rifle was found upon Sheila's body in the bedroom, or off it, or found elsewhere in the same bedroom, and the .22 air rifle was found on the spiral staircase which led from the kktchen to the jupstyioars landing...

Now...

About this other rifle leaning up against whichevber window you want to call it, can you please identify it for me?

Jeapes' statement is confusing especially where she says Moules was 12 yds behind her to her right covering white/green side (this would have her on black/green side)!

The rest of it sounds like she is possibly describing the box room, so, like you say Mike, which rifle is this then?

From Hartley's plan of where Jeapes would be positioned, could she see both the master bedroom and boxroom?  There is also a wall.   How high is this wall? 

[NewChilledOutHartley]

Jeapes' statement is confusing especially where she says Moules was 12 yds behind her to her right covering white/green side (this would have her on black/green side)!

The rest of it sounds like she is possibly describing the box room, so, like you say Mike, which rifle is this then?

From Hartley's plan of where Jeapes would be positioned, could she see both the master bedroom and boxroom?  There is also a wall.   How high is this wall?

Which wall do you mean HM? The straight wall opposite the barn is about a metre high, the curved wall to the right of the yard is about 1600mm high, maybe a bit more.

[mike tesko]

Since police only recovered two rifles from the scene, and there was obviously three different ones, the relatives must have removed it from the scene on 10th August 1985, but for some reason the relatuives are niot the slightesrt bit interested in identifying it - Why is that?

[Patti]

Here is a statement from PC Rozga seeing what he thought was a shotgun in the box room upstairs, which ties in with what Jeapes said in her statement...It is a shame that he does not say it is near a window, in fact he doesn't say where it was......

[susan]

Hi Patti  Hope your appointment went well.