Sheila was the killer...

[mike tesko]

I'm sorry but you have proved nothing to me, except that five bullets were double marked. You can't prove when they were loaded and you can't prove who they were fired at first.

If you think that asking for proof when a man's life is at stake is "nitpicking" - well that's up to you.

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I do not like your attitude, and if you continue to try and make personal attacks upon me, without justification, I will refuse to correspond with you, or answer your mischievous posts and comments...

Contrary to what you are suggesting, I do have proof to back up everything I have been saying - you only have opinions like everybody else, everything you say is not proof, or evidence, to disprove the things which I choose to speak about...

I can prove everything I have been saying, can you?

I don't really like people presenting opinions as fact. You posted your proof and I saw problems with it, which you have ignored. It's you who attacked me actually.

I'm still waiting for you to decide whether the police log was in court or not, but you ignored that as well.

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I cannot allow you to make this discussion board into a personal slanging match - I am not responding to anything you want to speak to me about from now on, and any further abuse and mischievous comments I will consider removing your posts altogether...

Good luck with your own opinions on the case...

[Kaldin]

I'm sorry but you have proved nothing to me, except that five bullets were double marked. You can't prove when they were loaded and you can't prove who they were fired at first.

If you think that asking for proof when a man's life is at stake is "nitpicking" - well that's up to you.

----------------------------------------------

I do not like your attitude, and if you continue to try and make personal attacks upon me, without justification, I will refuse to correspond with you, or answer your mischievous posts and comments...

Contrary to what you are suggesting, I do have proof to back up everything I have been saying - you only have opinions like everybody else, everything you say is not proof, or evidence, to disprove the things which I choose to speak about...

I can prove everything I have been saying, can you?

I don't really like people presenting opinions as fact. You posted your proof and I saw problems with it, which you have ignored. It's you who attacked me actually.

I'm still waiting for you to decide whether the police log was in court or not, but you ignored that as well.

--------------------------------------

I cannot allow you to make this discussion board into a personal slanging match - I am not responding to anything you want to speak to me about from now on, and any further abuse and mischievous comments I will consider removing your posts altogether...

Good luck with your own opinions on the case...

Fine then. If you want to remove me and my posts, feel free. If this is a site where one has to believe everything which points to Jeremy's innocence without proof, and ignores everything which does not, then it's biased, and there's not much point me posting here anyway.

[Pete0001]

From a prvious thread all I can see is that you state Jeremy's statement was that he filled the magazine to carry 10 bullets.. of which there was already 5 or 6 bullets present and that the Police excepted this statement.

If my paragraph above is a good description of events then I don't see that as PROVEN FACT. Just a statement made by the accussed and excepted by the Police because they see no reason to doubt it.

[Kaldin]

From a prvious thread all I can see is that Jeremy's statement was that he filled the magazine to carry 10 bullets.. of which there was already 5 or 6 bullets present and that the Police excepted this statement.

If my paragraph above is a good description of events then I don't see that as PROVEN FACT. Just a statement made by the accussed and excepted by the Police because they see no reason to doubt it.

Even if Jeremy did do that, I don't see how it's proof that the bullets already in the magazine were the double-marked ones. As I understand it, they become double-marked if they are loaded and then taken out and put back in again. That tells me nothing about where the double-marked were in the magazine or when they were loaded. 

[Pete0001]

Yes.. that's my thoughts... the only reference I can find about it is what I posted above.. that Mike said Jeremy's statement was that he filled the magazine to carry 10 bullets.. of which there was already 5 or 6 bullets present and that the Police excepted this statement.

Its a statement that is acceptted

[Kaldin]

Yes.. that's my thoughts... the only reference I can find about it is what I posted above.. that Mike said Jeremy's statement was that he filled the magazine to carry 10 bullets.. of which there was already 5 or 6 bullets present and that the Police excepted this statement.

Its a statement that is acceptted

If there were 25 shots, and there were 20 bullets missing from a new box of bullets, I can accept that 5 bullets were already in the magazine. What I can't see is how anyone knows that these were the double-marked bullets.

[Pete0001]

Yes.. that's my thoughts... the only reference I can find about it is what I posted above.. that Mike said Jeremy's statement was that he filled the magazine to carry 10 bullets.. of which there was already 5 or 6 bullets present and that the Police excepted this statement.

Its a statement that is acceptted

If there were 25 shots, and there were 20 bullets missing from a new box of bullets, I can accept that 5 bullets were already in the magazine. What I can't see is how anyone knows that these were the double-marked bullets.

I don't so much dispute them being double marked... just that its only Jeremys statement and accpetance of the Police of that statement. There is no evidence that the bullets that were in the magazine after Jeremy left it the night before, stayed in that order in the magazine... Its quite possible that if Sheila was the killer she may have removed the bullets to count how many were in the magazine. Wth her being a relative novice in gun terms she might not be able to tell how many shots were already in the magazine. Did the magazine have any visual indicator to inform the user of bullets left in magazine.

[mike tesko]

Ballistic Experts Statement

Please click on image to enlarge...

[Kaldin]

My problem with these double-marked bullets is that they were allegedly found in three different rooms. That conjures up an image of someone running around an awful lot rather than staying in one place and shooting each person several times before they moved on to the next.

Let's just say that the double-marked bullets were the second five bullets to be fired.

I can just about accept that the killer shot June first with single-marked bullets when she was in bed, then twice with double-marked bullets after she got out of bed and killed her.

The problem with that is that one of the double-market cartridges was found on June's bed if the drawing is accurate, so how did that happen?

Then the killer went to the boys' room and shot them once each with double-marked bullets.

All this time Neville must have been in the kitchen, so the killer went down and found him and shot him once with a double-marked bullet. Then they had to reload.

The sticking point with that is that Neville is supposed to have been shot in the bedroom before he was shot in the kitchen. It's been suggested that he was not, and I'm prepared to consider that but I do need to know why the police would move four bullets into the bedroom and pretend they found them there, and if there's any evidence they did that.

At some point, the killer went back to the boys' bedroom and shot them a further six times. Why?

[Kaldin]

Yes.. that's my thoughts... the only reference I can find about it is what I posted above.. that Mike said Jeremy's statement was that he filled the magazine to carry 10 bullets.. of which there was already 5 or 6 bullets present and that the Police excepted this statement.

Its a statement that is acceptted

If there were 25 shots, and there were 20 bullets missing from a new box of bullets, I can accept that 5 bullets were already in the magazine. What I can't see is how anyone knows that these were the double-marked bullets.

I don't so much dispute them being double marked... just that its only Jeremys statement and accpetance of the Police of that statement. There is no evidence that the bullets that were in the magazine after Jeremy left it the night before, stayed in that order in the magazine... Its quite possible that if Sheila was the killer she may have removed the bullets to count how many were in the magazine. Wth her being a relative novice in gun terms she might not be able to tell how many shots were already in the magazine. Did the magazine have any visual indicator to inform the user of bullets left in magazine.

There's nothing to indicate that the double-marked bullets were in the first magazine-load. Perhaps when the killer reloaded, they put some bullets in crookedly and had to take some out and back in again. That could mean that the double-marked bullets were in the second or third load - or a mixture of the two, and they weren't necessarily next to each other in the magazine.

[mike tesko]

Crime Scene Bullet Information

Please click on image to enlarge...

[mike tesko]

Conclusions of Ballistic expert

Malcolm Fletcher, ballistic expert, examined the batch of crime scene ammunition, from, and after 20th September 1985, and concluded that he could only positively link, 15 of the 25 bullets, as definitely having been fired via the Bamber rifle (defined as the .22 anshulz rifle). He was unable to associate another ten (10) crime scene bullets, as having been fired via the Bamber rifle, to the exclusion of all other weapons...

This leaves it open to the suggestion, that a second firearm could have, or did fire, these other ten (10) bullets during the incident...

However...

[Kaldin]

Conclusions of Ballistic expert

Malcolm Fletcher, ballistic expert, examined the batch of crime scene ammunition, from, and after 20th September 1985, and concluded that he could only positively link, 15 of the 25 bullets, as definitely having been fired via the Bamber rifle (defined as the .22 anshulz rifle). He was unable to associate another ten (10) crime scene bullets, as having been fired via the Bamber rifle, to the exclusion of all other weapons...

This leaves it open to the suggestion, that a second firearm could have, or did fire, these other ten (10) bullets during the incident...

However...

Wasn't that because a lot of the bullets were not complete though?

[mike tesko]

Bullet cases

The ballistic expert, examined the 25 bullet cases which allegedly formed part and parcel of the batch of crime scene ammunition, and found marks upon them, which were compared against marks found upon control ammunition fired via the Bamber rifle, during official test firings of the said weapon, and control ammunition, on and after 20th September 1985...

These test firings became known as "The official test firings", and Fletcher concluded that all 25 of these bullet cases, had at some stage been loaded into the magazine of the weapon, fired, and ejected from the gun...

[mike tesko]

Overall conclusions

Fletcher concluded that the 25 wounds inflicted upon the five victims, were all committed by bullets which had all been fired via the Bamber rifle, based upon the fact that all 25 of the bullet cases, which he examined, during, and after the official test firing of the gun, had all been loaded and fired, and ejected from it...