Author Topic: Adam's Claims...  (Read 14424 times)

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Offline ILB

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Re: Adam's Claims...
« Reply #150 on: May 09, 2025, 08:02:PM »
Do you think the relatives were responsible for the paint on the silencer and the blood inside, Dave?
Had they heard of backspatter or just thought that it was possible for blood to run into the silencer ?
And was Stan unaware of the fact that they were responsible for the blood inside and the paint, if so, were the relatives just hoping that the silencer would be opened up and the blood found?

Have you seen Suthersts findings?
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Offline ILB

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Re: Adam's Claims...
« Reply #151 on: May 09, 2025, 08:08:PM »
The areas where nicholas were shot were vascular areas that would produce high blood flow.
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Offline ILB

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Re: Adam's Claims...
« Reply #152 on: May 09, 2025, 08:12:PM »
The idea of Jeremy Bamber cleaning the silencer after shooting the twins and then going on to shoot Shelia last is ludicrous.
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Online snow66!

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Re: Adam's Claims...
« Reply #153 on: May 09, 2025, 08:16:PM »
Have you seen Suthersts findings?
Yes, when did he say the scratches appeared, ILB? Or did he just say they weren't there on the 7th?

Offline Adam

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Re: Adam's Claims...
« Reply #154 on: May 09, 2025, 08:16:PM »
Elaborate please.

Bamber has never made this suggestion since 1985. So not an option.
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Offline ILB

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Re: Adam's Claims...
« Reply #155 on: May 09, 2025, 08:18:PM »
Bamber has never made this suggestion since 1985. So not an option.

Do you agree given that the high blood flow areas you would expect to find nicholas blood alongside shelias in the silencer?
« Last Edit: May 09, 2025, 08:22:PM by ILB »
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Offline ILB

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Re: Adam's Claims...
« Reply #156 on: May 09, 2025, 08:21:PM »
Yes, when did he say the scratches appeared, ILB? Or did he just say they weren't there on the 7th?

For you snow from JBs site


Forensic Expert Reports
In 2011 the Criminal Cases Review Commission (CCRC) gave a provisional refusal to Jeremy Bamber's application. The submission itself was supported by three forensic reports one of which is linked below.

At the trial the prosecution claimed that red paint came to be embedded on a sound moderator during a fight between Nevill and Jeremy in the kitchen at White House Farm. The only photographs of this scratch were taken on the 12th of September 1985, some five weeks after the original crime scene photographs. Curiously, the original scene photographs disclosed don't show the area in question which is underneath the mantle shelf. This contention suggests that the scratches were fabricated evidence created to implicated Jeremy Bamber.

To support this contention Peter Sutherst argued in a forensic report that the area where scratch marks were present could be seen in one of the photographs taken on the 7th of August, and that there were not scratch marks present in this photograph. Peter Sutherst was only allowed to examine the photographs at the CCRC's offices and was not given full access at his lab as he requested.

The CCRC initially stated to the defence that Sutherst was their preferred expert and therefore they would not hire another forensic expert to test the validity of his findings. They renaged on this and hired a leading forensic firm to refute this report and argue that the area where the scratches were made could not be seen in the photographs taken on the 7th of August 1985. They sent the case photographs in negative form by courier to LGC forensics lab for examination, and thus giving their expert advantage over Sutherst who worked without the specialist equipment at his own lab.

The defence still refutes LGC forensics contention that scratches cannot be seen owing to miscalculation of the location of the point of where the scratch marks would have been present on the images. The integrity of the CCRC has to be brought into question regarding the full disclosure of negatives outside of their offices. Forensic reports are costly and funding for reports like Sutherst's is difficult to find. From the outset the CCRC had put the defence's forensics at a disadvantage.
« Last Edit: May 09, 2025, 08:22:PM by ILB »
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Offline David1819

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Re: Adam's Claims...
« Reply #157 on: May 09, 2025, 08:34:PM »
Do you think the relatives were responsible for the paint on the silencer and the blood inside, Dave?

Yes

Had they heard of backspatter or just thought that it was possible for blood to run into the silencer ?

Both are possible.

And was Stan unaware of the fact that they were responsible for the blood inside and the paint, if so, were the relatives just hoping that the silencer would be opened up and the blood found?

Robert Boutflour told the police that he believed Jeremy had inserted a tampon into the silencer to remove blood from the inside. And that they should examine it for fibres.

Not only does this raise questions as to how he would know there was blood in the silencer at one point. You also need to consider whether he actually believed this tampon idea or whether he was trying to get them to look inside it without making too obvious as to why.

Offline Adam

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Re: Adam's Claims...
« Reply #158 on: May 09, 2025, 08:38:PM »
Do you agree given that the high blood flow areas you would expect to find nicholas blood alongside shelias in the silencer?

Not looked into it.

The evidence is it was Sheila's. With a remote possibility of it being a mixture of June & Nevill's.

Must be a non starter claiming it could be Nicholas's. As he has never suggested it.
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Offline ILB

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Re: Adam's Claims...
« Reply #159 on: May 09, 2025, 08:43:PM »
The blood from someone as RB and SC at the time would forensically disintguishable.

Backspatter is a phemonon that not all experts agree on.
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Online snow66!

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Re: Adam's Claims...
« Reply #160 on: May 09, 2025, 08:43:PM »
For you snow from JBs site


Forensic Expert Reports
In 2011 the Criminal Cases Review Commission (CCRC) gave a provisional refusal to Jeremy Bamber's application. The submission itself was supported by three forensic reports one of which is linked below.

At the trial the prosecution claimed that red paint came to be embedded on a sound moderator during a fight between Nevill and Jeremy in the kitchen at White House Farm. The only photographs of this scratch were taken on the 12th of September 1985, some five weeks after the original crime scene photographs. Curiously, the original scene photographs disclosed don't show the area in question which is underneath the mantle shelf. This contention suggests that the scratches were fabricated evidence created to implicated Jeremy Bamber.

To support this contention Peter Sutherst argued in a forensic report that the area where scratch marks were present could be seen in one of the photographs taken on the 7th of August, and that there were not scratch marks present in this photograph. Peter Sutherst was only allowed to examine the photographs at the CCRC's offices and was not given full access at his lab as he requested.

The CCRC initially stated to the defence that Sutherst was their preferred expert and therefore they would not hire another forensic expert to test the validity of his findings. They renaged on this and hired a leading forensic firm to refute this report and argue that the area where the scratches were made could not be seen in the photographs taken on the 7th of August 1985. They sent the case photographs in negative form by courier to LGC forensics lab for examination, and thus giving their expert advantage over Sutherst who worked without the specialist equipment at his own lab.

The defence still refutes LGC forensics contention that scratches cannot be seen owing to miscalculation of the location of the point of where the scratch marks would have been present on the images. The integrity of the CCRC has to be brought into question regarding the full disclosure of negatives outside of their offices. Forensic reports are costly and funding for reports like Sutherst's is difficult to find. From the outset the CCRC had put the defence's forensics at a disadvantage.

Thanks ILB, yes I was looking at the statements in the archive here under David Bird, and yes the photos of the scratches were not taken until 12th sept.
And interestingly, Mike Tesco states that David Boutflour found a silencer at WHF the day before on the 11th of sept,

Online snow66!

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Re: Adam's Claims...
« Reply #161 on: May 09, 2025, 08:45:PM »
Yes

Both are possible.

Robert Boutflour told the police that he believed Jeremy had inserted a tampon into the silencer to remove blood from the inside. And that they should examine it for fibres.

Not only does this raise questions as to how he would know there was blood in the silencer at one point. You also need to consider whether he actually believed this tampon idea or whether he was trying to get them to look inside it without making too obvious as to why.
Interesting Dave, interesting.

Offline ILB

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Re: Adam's Claims...
« Reply #162 on: May 09, 2025, 08:48:PM »
Not looked into it.

The evidence is it was Sheila's. With a remote possibility of it being a mixture of June & Nevill's.

Must be a non starter claiming it could be Nicholas's. As he has never suggested it.

Do you think he would have cleaned it during the massacre in-between victims?

Thirty seconds under a tap?
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Offline ILB

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Re: Adam's Claims...
« Reply #163 on: May 09, 2025, 08:49:PM »
If I recall correctly believed the boys and Nevill had the same blood group and Shelia and June also did. But would have to recheck to be fair.

Believe the boys and Nevill were O and Shelia and June A.
« Last Edit: May 09, 2025, 08:50:PM by ILB »
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Offline David1819

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Re: Adam's Claims...
« Reply #164 on: May 09, 2025, 09:48:PM »
If I recall correctly believed the boys and Nevill had the same blood group and Shelia and June also did. But would have to recheck to be fair.

Believe the boys and Nevill were O and Shelia and June A.

Correct but twins also had PGM 2+1+ and Hp 2. None of the other deceased had these in their blood groups.