The disclosure issue

[ILB]

https://www.casemine.com/judgement/uk/5edf21912c94e0636885c935#

Why won't the CPS disclose?

Why if the CCRC have the relevant powers to order full disclosure. Do just that?

I do believe whether it be Jeremy Bamber or anybody has the right to a full disclosure of documents

[Zoso]

https://www.casemine.com/judgement/uk/5edf21912c94e0636885c935#

Why won't the CPS disclose?

Why if the CCRC have the relevant powers to order full disclosure. Do just that?

I do believe whether it be Jeremy Bamber or anybody has the right to a full disclosure of documents

They can't disclose if there is no second sound moderator.

[Roch]

They can't disclose if there is no second sound moderator.

If there is no second sound moderator, how would that stop them from disclosing photographs, documents and reports?

[Zoso]

If there is no second sound moderator, how would that stop them from disclosing photographs, documents and reports?

The article is about a second sound moderator but the same applies to all of the other claims.

[Adam]

Always wondered what they meant about a second SM. Now I know.

Another SM at WHF may have been the one Bamber used.

So how did Sheila's blood, aga paint, a grey hair and a scratch get on the other one? Perhaps that was the one Bamber used?

[Roch]

The article is about a second sound moderator but the same applies to all of the other claims.

There is nothing stopping the CPS from disclosing this stuff. It is choosing to deliberately not do so because this is the order behind the scenes from above.

Also, regarding your theory that that nothing can be disclosed that doesn't exist. Why don't they just come out and say, the reason why we can't disclose the material requested is because it doesnt exist.  Then we can take it from there. 

[Adam]

Of course there may have been 2 SM's at WHF. The place was full of weapons and accessories.

Only one SM would be used on the night.

[Adam]

The prosecution just need one SM with the incriminating evidence on.

If there was another SM at WHF, that is irrelevant.

[Rob_]

They can't disclose if there is no second sound moderator.

This is why they cannot disclose:

The trial was unusual in that the jury were told the killings could have been carried out only by Caffell or Bamber. The issue of the silencer was vital in persuading the jury, with the judge instructing them the silencer "could, on its own, lead them to believe that Bamber was guilty".

Now the conclusions of a peer-reviewed pathology assessment of the evidence relating to Caffell's death, obtained by the Observer, appear to demolish the case against Bamber. They suggest that a silencer – so pivotal to Bamber's conviction – was never used. One report by David Fowler, chief medical examiner of the US state of Maryland, who has reviewed the files of more than 3,000 shooting homicides, states: "In my professional opinion, the [burn marks] complex just described of the lower entrance and two abrasions is consistent with the rifle not having a silencer."

Fowler believes no silencer was involved. His conclusion is supported by Ljubisa Dragovic, chief medical examiner of Oakland county in Michigan, and Marcella Fierro, former chief medical examiner of Virginia.

Leeds-based Simon McKay, Bamber's new solicitor advocate, said: "The evidence of three senior and respected pathologists that the wounds to Sheila Caffell are consistent with the rifle having been fired without the silencer fitted shakes the safety of Jeremy Bamber's convictions to their core."

[Zoso]

This is why they cannot disclose:

The trial was unusual in that the jury were told the killings could have been carried out only by Caffell or Bamber. The issue of the silencer was vital in persuading the jury, with the judge instructing them the silencer "could, on its own, lead them to believe that Bamber was guilty".

Now the conclusions of a peer-reviewed pathology assessment of the evidence relating to Caffell's death, obtained by the Observer, appear to demolish the case against Bamber. They suggest that a silencer – so pivotal to Bamber's conviction – was never used. One report by David Fowler, chief medical examiner of the US state of Maryland, who has reviewed the files of more than 3,000 shooting homicides, states: "In my professional opinion, the [burn marks] complex just described of the lower entrance and two abrasions is consistent with the rifle not having a silencer."

Fowler believes no silencer was involved. His conclusion is supported by Ljubisa Dragovic, chief medical examiner of Oakland county in Michigan, and Marcella Fierro, former chief medical examiner of Virginia.

Leeds-based Simon McKay, Bamber's new solicitor advocate, said: "The evidence of three senior and respected pathologists that the wounds to Sheila Caffell are consistent with the rifle having been fired without the silencer fitted shakes the safety of Jeremy Bamber's convictions to their core."

That's arguing no silencer, not TWO silencers LOL

[Steve_uk]

This is why they cannot disclose:

The trial was unusual in that the jury were told the killings could have been carried out only by Caffell or Bamber. The issue of the silencer was vital in persuading the jury, with the judge instructing them the silencer "could, on its own, lead them to believe that Bamber was guilty".

Now the conclusions of a peer-reviewed pathology assessment of the evidence relating to Caffell's death, obtained by the Observer, appear to demolish the case against Bamber. They suggest that a silencer – so pivotal to Bamber's conviction – was never used. One report by David Fowler, chief medical examiner of the US state of Maryland, who has reviewed the files of more than 3,000 shooting homicides, states: "In my professional opinion, the [burn marks] complex just described of the lower entrance and two abrasions is consistent with the rifle not having a silencer."

Fowler believes no silencer was involved. His conclusion is supported by Ljubisa Dragovic, chief medical examiner of Oakland county in Michigan, and Marcella Fierro, former chief medical examiner of Virginia.

Leeds-based Simon McKay, Bamber's new solicitor advocate, said: "The evidence of three senior and respected pathologists that the wounds to Sheila Caffell are consistent with the rifle having been fired without the silencer fitted shakes the safety of Jeremy Bamber's convictions to their core."

Well you're going up a blind alley with that one if people are now claiming the burn marks on Nevill's flesh was caused by an Aga knob.

[Rob_]

That's arguing no silencer, not TWO silencers LOL

The silencer was never used in the first place, but two were examined at the labs so we have a huge problem don't we!

[Rob_]

Well you're going up a blind alley with that one if people are now claiming the burn marks on Nevill's flesh was caused by an Aga knob.

I was talking about the shots to Sheila not the burns to Nevil Steve!

[Adam]

The silencer was never used in the first place, but two were examined at the labs so we have a huge problem don't we!

Source please.

The silencer with Sheila's blood, the aga paint, a grey hair and scratch on would be the only one  examined.

[Rob_]

Source please.

The silencer with Sheila's blood, the aga paint, a grey hair and scratch on would be the only one  examined.

A bit more Adam:

Evidence that the fatal wounds had been fired by a rifle without a silencer are corroborated by further fresh analysis of burn marks on Nevill Bamber's back. The findings are supported by firearms experts working for Dr John Manlove, an Oxfordshire-based forensic scientist.

Manlove states: "From its size and shape, this mark could possibly have been caused by the hot muzzle of a firearm, without a sound moderator." He says that further testing is required with the murder weapon, an Anschütz 525 rifle, to underpin his initial assessment.